Cecilia Bartoli

[Siedler]

Thanks for the link Sarastro, I actually loved it (refreshingly different approach). Robert Levine (from classicstoday.com) wrote in his review aptly: She sings "Casta diva" (without its cabaletta) in a mesmeric whisper and the effect is ravishing, although we probably would not want to hear her sing the entire role of Norma.".

[Tsaraslondon]

Thanks for the link Sarastro, I actually loved it (refreshingly different approach). Robert Levine (from classicstoday.com) wrote in his review aptly: She sings "Casta diva" (without its cabaletta) in a mesmeric whisper and the effect is ravishing, although we probably would not want to hear her sing the entire role of Norma.".

Well we all hear things differently, I guess. I hated it. Robert Levine and I evidently hear different things. I found her aspirating and jerky singing of those lovely floating melismas a very long way from what I would call a mesmeric whisper. He's right in one thing though. She could never sing the complete role. She simply doesn't have enough voice.

[Siedler]

Well I know my taste can be questionable... 

[Morigan]

The person who posted Bartoli's Casta Diva on YouTube compares Callas' performance of this aria to "a screamo fest"

While I do not really agree, it made me chortle Coke through my nose.

[Harry]

The person who posted Bartoli's Casta Diva on YouTube compares Callas' performance of this aria to "a screamo fest"

Well I think she or he is right. she screams most of the time........

Gives us the link if you please!

[Tsaraslondon]

Well I think she or he is right. she screams most of the time........

Gives us the link if you please!

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Might I ask how much Callas you (and the commentator on Youtube) have actually heard, or are you basing your comments on hearsay, and a few of her late recordings? Like most people who come out with such fatuous comments, I suspect this to be the case. If this is screaming, she can scream at me all day every day.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7B8rGK3jvQ

As ever, Callas's legato is perfection. Bartoli could learn much from it. Those who are raving about the Bartoli version are, as usual, mistaking different for good. It is no surprise to find that the singers of the best versions of this aria (Ponselle, Callas, Sutherland and Caballe) have a strikingly similar approach to its difficulties and melismas, however different their voices and styles.

[Harry]

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Might I ask how much Callas you (and the commentator on Youtube) have actually heard, or are you basing your comments on hearsay, and a few of her late recordings? Like most people who come out with such fatuous comments, I suspect this to be the case. If this is screaming, she can scream at me all day every day.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7B8rGK3jvQ

As ever, Callas's legato is perfection. Bartoli could learn much from it. Those who are raving about the Bartoli version are, as usual, mistaking different for good. It is no surprise to find that the singers of the best versions of this aria (Ponselle, Callas, Sutherland and Caballe) have a strikingly similar approach to its difficulties and melismas, however different their voices and styles.

Tsaras, this is my personal opinion, after hearing examples from the big EMI box. I took a broadside of all what was there. And I respect your opinion, but I am of the conviction, that she is a bad singer, and screams most of the time.
And for what its worth Bartoli goes the same way.

[Tsaraslondon]

Tsaras, this is my personal opinion, after hearing examples from the big EMI box. I took a broadside of all what was there. And I repect your opinion, but I am of the conviction, that she is a bad singer, and screams most of the time.

Then you can only have listened to those recordings made post 1958. On the other hand, for someone who prefers the piping of an Emma Kirkby, maybe it does sound like screaming. Harry, if she was a bad singer, she would not have had the most illustrious career of any soprano of the 20th century, however good her stage acting and personality were.  Nor would she have won the admiration of so many singers, conductors and instrumentalists down the years. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. However I am happy to see that mine accords with the opinions of such luminaries as Karajan, Bernstein, Giulini, Erich Kleiber, Vittorio Gui, Victor de Sabata, Serafin, Schwarzkopf, Sutherland, Caballe, Gobbi, Grace Bumbry, Ricciarelli, Cotrubas, Claudio Arrau, Victoria Mullova and many more.

Did you listen to the clip I posted? Or the one I posted in the Callas thread? Somehow I doubt it. You presumably prefer not to be disabused of your misapprehension.

[Harry]

Then you can only have listened to those recordings made post 1958. On the other hand, for someone who prefers the piping of an Emma Kirkby, maybe it does sound like screaming. Harry, if she was a bad singer, she would not have had the most illustrious career of any soprano of the 20th century, however good her stage acting and personality were.  Nor would she have won the admiration of so many singers, conductors and instrumentalists down the years. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. However I am happy to see that mine accords with the opinions of such luminaries as Karajan, Bernstein, Giulini, Erich Kleiber, Vittorio Gui, Victor de Sabata, Serafin, Schwarzkopf, Sutherland, Caballe, Gobbi, Grace Bumbry, Ricciarelli, Cotrubas, Claudio Arrau, Victoria Mullova and many more.

Did you listen to the clip I posted? Or the one I posted in the Callas thread? Somehow I doubt it. You presumably prefer not to be disabused of your misapprehension.

I listen to recordings from every period of her career.
You are entitled to your opinion about Emma, no problem.
The fact that luminaries were won over by her, had more to do with the money of her lovers, and the acknowledged status of the phenomenon DIVA, than with he qualities as a singer. People are in love with the image.
And by the way, have you ever read the diatribes from Karajan about her singing abilities?
Most of the people you name come from her generation, and it is therefore understandable that they admire her.
Just listen to what actors say about the film they just made, the director is always wonderful, whatever.
In that time people wanted to adore, whatever the quality of their output.
Callas is wonderful, whatever!
Misapprehension? Maybe! But do not forget that I am entitled to my opinion, as you are.

[Tsaraslondon]

I listen to recordings from every period of her career.
You are entitled to your opinion about Emma, no problem.
The fact that luminaries were won over by her, had more to do with the money of her lovers, and the acknowledged status of the phenomenon DIVA, than with he qualities as a singer. People are in love with the image.
And by the way, have you ever read the diatribes from Karajan about her singing abilities?
Most of the people you name come from her generation, and it is therefore understandable that they admire her.
Just listen to what actors say about the film they just made, the director is always wonderful, whatever.
In that time people wanted to adore, whatever the quality of their output.
Callas is wonderful, whatever!
Misapprehension? Maybe! But do not forget that I am entitled to my opinion, as you are.

Her lovers? Who exactly are you talking about? She was world famous long before she met Onassis. In fact it was her fame that attracted him to her. For the major part of her career she was married to Meneghini, who, though successful, was hardly a multi-millionaire. In fact, he gave up all his business dealings to manage her career, and it was Callas who ended up supporting him. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that she had any other lovers while she was married to him. Your inference is that Callas's success was manufactured. Remember in those days, marketing had hardly been invented and those artists that did make it to the top, did so through talent and hard work. Callas didn't even have a press agent. How different from today, when careers are made by the marketing men, and are often made by looks rather than talent.

On another point, if anything, the army of her admirers has grown since her death. And how do you explain that her records still outsell those of all other sopranos? You may not like the sound she makes, but it obviously speaks to millions of other people. However, they are no doubt people who love opera, whereas you, by your own admission in previous posts, tend to avoid it.

As for Karajan, he had a few things to say about her personality (with two such large egos, that is hardly surprising), but there is plenty of documentation to support his appreciation of her impeccable musicianship.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion (you are evidently determined to stick to it, whatever anyone says), but please don't try to support it with untruths.

[Harry]

Her lovers? Who exactly are you talking about? She was world famous long before she met Onassis. In fact it was her fame that attracted him to her. For the major part of her career she was married to Meneghini, who, though successful, was hardly a multi-millionaire. In fact, he gave up all his business dealings to manage her career, and it was Callas who ended up supporting him. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that she had any other lovers while she was married to him. Your inference is that Callas's success was manufactured. Remember in those days, marketing had hardly been invented and those artists that did make it to the top, did so through talent and hard work. Callas didn't even have a press agent. How different from today, when careers are made by the marketing men, and are often made by looks rather than talent.

On another point, if anything, the army of her admirers has grown since her death. And how do you explain that her records still outsell those of all other sopranos? You may not like the sound she makes, but it obviously speaks to millions of other people. However, they are no doubt people who love opera, whereas you, by your own admission in previous posts, tend to avoid it.

As for Karajan, he had a few things to say about her personality (with two such large egos, that is hardly surprising), but there is plenty of documentation to support his appreciation of her impeccable musicianship.

Yes you are entitled to your opinion (you are evidently determined to stick to it, whatever anyone says), but please don't try to support it with untruths.

There is not one untruth in my story.
And I will not be entangled in a discussion about this.
If you have read everything about Callas, you should know a thing or two.
But you obviously haven't.
Well I rest my case.
You have the field again meastro.

[Tsaraslondon]

There is not one untruth in my story.
And I will not be entangled in a discussion about this.
If you have read everything about Callas, you should know a thing or two.
But you obviously haven't.
Well I rest my case.
You have the field again meastro.

Actually it is precisely because this is my subject and I have read just about everything I can get my hands on about Callas that I can categorically state that it is full of untruths. You may rest your case, but it is entirely unproven. I can't imagine that you have read as much on this subject as I have. Indeed why would you, if you don't like the lady?
One thing I have learned today, is that, like one or two others on this site, you are best ignored.

[Harry]

Actually it is precisely because this is my subject and I have read just about everything I can get my hands on about Callas that I can categorically state that it is full of untruths. You may rest your case, but it is entirely unproven. I can't imagine that you have read as much on this subject as I have. Indeed why would you, if you don't like the lady?
One thing I have learned today, is that, like one or two others on this site, you are best ignored.

Thank you my friend, I am most gratefull, and remember being nice and polite costs nothing, and brings great dividends.
But you are not interested I see.
Being fanatical about anything, will destroy your common sense, believe me.
I wish you all imaginable happiness.

[Tsaraslondon]

Thank you my friend, I am most gratefull, and remember being nice and polite costs nothing, and brings great dividends.
But you are not interested I see.
Being fanatical about anything, will destroy your common sense, believe me.
I wish you all imaginable happiness.

Well I just have to come back on one point, Harry. I have reread all my posts, and at no point have I been anything but polite. Furthemore, at least I have backed up my fanaticism with facts, whereas you have not. If you would like me to go further, though I haven't got the time at the moment, I could support my arguments with quotes and dates. I have all the facts to hand. And, pardon me for pointing it out, Harry, but you are being at least as obdurate as I. Have you listened to the youtube extracts I posted. No, I thought not.

[Rod Corkin]

Well... she is one of my favorite singers, so I won't mind a thread dedicated to her recordings.

I know she is extremely popular (which makes her an easy bashing target) but I really don't think that the fact that her CDs are sold in other places except for that remote Romanian castle is such a great detriment.

I wonder what the opinions of other GMG members are. Do you like her? Do you hate her? Why? Do you have any favorite recordings?

No good for Handel that's for sure.