Author Topic: The Great Mahler Debate  (Read 86936 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9294
  • Too late. Too little.
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
  • Currently Listening to:
    I am revisiting my CD collection.
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #260 on: May 01, 2007, 08:28:48 AM »
Sure, but unless you have perfect pitch and are completely "fluent" in solfege, the sore does help massively in understanding what you're hearing and hearing things with new ears when you listen the next time.

Music is based on relative pitch between notes. No need for perfect pitch.

Stop! Wait a minute. Earlier you objected to things going "by the book", now you speak of musical laws? Apart from the physics of electromagnetic radiation in the audible spectrum over time, what are these? I don't doubt that all kinds of noise are analyzed by the same part of the brain, but structurally breakbeat will offer only a limited "vocabulary" for analyzing other forms and idioms of music.

Musical laws determine what sounds good and what doesn't. Music theory tries to create relatively simple rules for that but can never describe of subtleties of musical laws. When I make music I use the musical laws to guide my while composers with music theory studies used the theories (and perhaps musical laws in some extent).

Breakbeat offers naturally limited tools to analyse other kind of music but limited is better than nothing.

And how do you know what Elgar's scores are if  you don't read them??? How do you know whether a conductor's intepretation is what the score says? Or do you just "free-think" your way again?

I'm not paranoid in this matter. I trust the conductors.

Precisely. Now, what's the connection between them?

I said I don't know! I haven't need these connections in my life! If I need someday I will use my time finding the answers!
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #261 on: May 01, 2007, 08:33:38 AM »
You should read more things "this ridiculous". You could learn something new Karl!

Oh, but I have, I have! I've learnt that there are no boundaries to your readiness to amuse us all by taking your fuzzy-speak and tacking it onto (drumroll, please):

Free-thinking! Ta-daaaa!

Quote
Everything's got to do with everything in the mind of a free-thinker!

Quote
I look for logical connections between every possible things.

Balderdash! Logic will not be seen in the same house with you.  (I know;  we've spoken on the subject.)

Offline Israfel the Black

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 163
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #262 on: May 01, 2007, 08:33:54 AM »
But, before I have heard Mahler's work several times I don't say anything... ...if Mahler hits me then there is Bruckner to be understood...  ;D

I believe Bruckner is easier to understand than Mahler. He is unplagued by elements of grotesque and playful wit to abstract his music (though I enjoy Mahler immensely). I highly suggest trying his 5th, 7th, and then perhaps the 9th. The Celibidache 3rd on EMI is a very personal favorite. I am an admirer of Elgar, and I find the passion of his music only rivaled by none other than Bruckner. He is, to me, perhaps one of the most passionate composers to ever write music. His music is genuinely mature, and rich with harmonies that can only be described as transcendental. I will confess, it took me at least a week for him to truly grab me, but with patience, I think you will find he has some truly rewarding music.

mahlertitan

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #263 on: May 01, 2007, 08:35:10 AM »
I believe Bruckner is easier to understand than Mahler. He is unplagued by elements of grotesque and playful wit to abstract his music (though I enjoy Mahler immensely). I highly suggest trying his 5th, 7th, and then perhaps the 9th. The Celibidache 3rd on EMI is a very personal favorite. I am an admirer of Elgar, and I find the passion of his music only rivaled by none other than Bruckner. He is, to me, perhaps one of the most passionate composers to ever write music. His music is genuinely mature, and rich with harmonies that can only be described as transcendental. I will confess, it took me at least a week for him to truly grab me, but with patience, I think you will find he has some truly rewarding music.

if he doesn't get mahler, what chance do yoou think he will get Bruckner?

Choo Choo

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #264 on: May 01, 2007, 08:37:39 AM »
I will confess, it took me at least a week for [Bruckner] to truly grab me, but with patience, I think you will find he has some truly rewarding music.

"At least a week" ?? :o   It took me years - really, years - before finally I "got" it.

You really should not always expect to get to the bottom of things instantly.  Snap judgements are rarely the best.

mahlertitan

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #265 on: May 01, 2007, 08:38:59 AM »
"At least a week" ?? :o   It took me years - really, years - before finally I "got" it.

You really should not always expect to get to the bottom of things instantly.  Snap judgements are rarely the best.

I agree, enjoying Bruckner is a acquire taste. so far, i only get his 4,7,8,9 symphonies.

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 21980
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #266 on: May 01, 2007, 08:42:46 AM »
I said I don't know! I haven't need these connections in my life! If I need someday I will use my time finding the answers!
Don't use your time, it's easy as 1,2,3.

Their family names all starts with M. ;D
What is Music? How do you define it? Music is a calm moonlit night, the rustle of leaves in Summer. Music is the far off peal of bells at dusk! Music comes straight from the heart and talks only to the heart: it is Love!  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline MishaK

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3790
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #267 on: May 01, 2007, 08:43:10 AM »
Music is based on relative pitch between notes. No need for perfect pitch.

So I take it you're fluent in solfege and you could write down a melody at first hearing?

Musical laws determine what sounds good and what doesn't. Music theory tries to create relatively simple rules for that but can never describe of subtleties of musical laws. When I make music I use the musical laws to guide my while composers with music theory studies used the theories (and perhaps musical laws in some extent).

Would you care to elaborate on some of these "laws" that theory supposedly misses? What does "good" mean in your first sentence of the above quote? If you haven't studied theory, how do you know what composers study?

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #268 on: May 01, 2007, 08:49:25 AM »
O Mensch, no don't ask him to elaborate!  This is laughable enough on its own!  :)

Musical laws determine what sounds good and what doesn't. Music theory tries to create relatively simple rules for that but can never describe of subtleties of musical laws. When I make music I use the musical laws to guide my while composers with music theory studies used the theories (and perhaps musical laws in some extent).

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9294
  • Too late. Too little.
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
  • Currently Listening to:
    I am revisiting my CD collection.
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #269 on: May 01, 2007, 08:49:43 AM »
Don't use your time, it's easy as 1,2,3.

Their family names all starts with M. ;D

I noticed that immediately but that is an irrelevant connection. The real connections are most probably extremely complex.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

Offline Israfel the Black

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 163
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #270 on: May 01, 2007, 08:50:07 AM »
"At least a week" ?? :o   It took me years - really, years - before finally I "got" it.

You really should not always expect to get to the bottom of things instantly.  Snap judgements are rarely the best.

I agree. It is true, however, some composers click sooner with people than others. It took me months before I ever got Schubert. But for me, I find Bruckner similar to Elgar in many respects, and less related to Mahler of whom he is so commonly associated. Aside from the scale and size of their symphonies, they have little in common. I find Bruckner's music is more in spirit with that of Elgar, hence my recommendation to 71 dB.

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9294
  • Too late. Too little.
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
  • Currently Listening to:
    I am revisiting my CD collection.
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #271 on: May 01, 2007, 08:52:06 AM »
I agree. It is true, however, some composers click sooner with people than others. It took me months before I ever got Schubert. But for me, I find Bruckner similar to Elgar in many respects, and less related to Mahler of whom he is so commonly associated. Aside from the scale and size of their symphonies, they have little in common. I find Bruckner's music is more in spirit with that of Elgar, hence my recommendation to 71 dB.

Okay Israfel the Black. Bruckner will be checked in the future...  ;)
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

Offline Israfel the Black

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 163
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #272 on: May 01, 2007, 08:53:02 AM »
 8)

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #273 on: May 01, 2007, 08:55:03 AM »
One thing's for sure:  threads are a great deal more amusing when 71 dB makes it all about (a) Elgar, (b) complexity, or both  ::)

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 21980
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #274 on: May 01, 2007, 08:56:06 AM »
I noticed that immediately but that is an irrelevant connection.
Believe me, my friend, it's the only connection.
What is Music? How do you define it? Music is a calm moonlit night, the rustle of leaves in Summer. Music is the far off peal of bells at dusk! Music comes straight from the heart and talks only to the heart: it is Love!  --- Rachmaninoff

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9294
  • Too late. Too little.
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
  • Currently Listening to:
    I am revisiting my CD collection.
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #275 on: May 01, 2007, 08:58:02 AM »
Believe me, my friend, it's the only connection.

Don't be so sure my friend!
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"

karlhenning

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #276 on: May 01, 2007, 08:58:53 AM »
Believe me, my friend, it's the only connection.

And being the only, possesses undeniable relevance  0:)

Don't be so sure my friend!

Oh-ho!  We're taking our Freethinking Vitamins, eh?

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 21980
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #277 on: May 01, 2007, 08:59:03 AM »
Don't be so sure my friend!
Well, it would really make my day should you point me to another one. :)
What is Music? How do you define it? Music is a calm moonlit night, the rustle of leaves in Summer. Music is the far off peal of bells at dusk! Music comes straight from the heart and talks only to the heart: it is Love!  --- Rachmaninoff

Choo Choo

  • Guest
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #278 on: May 01, 2007, 09:12:46 AM »
I agree. It is true, however, some composers click sooner with people than others. It took me months before I ever got Schubert. But for me, I find Bruckner similar to Elgar in many respects, and less related to Mahler of whom he is so commonly associated. Aside from the scale and size of their symphonies, they have little in common. I find Bruckner's music is more in spirit with that of Elgar, hence my recommendation to 71 dB.

Interesting - considering that there is a direct link between the music of Schubert and Bruckner, in terms of the one influencing the other.

(My point is only that there may be all different connections between musical works, and it may be hazardous to make inferences on the basis of some connections rather than others.)

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9294
  • Too late. Too little.
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
  • Currently Listening to:
    I am revisiting my CD collection.
Re: Mahler Mania
« Reply #279 on: May 01, 2007, 09:12:56 AM »
Well, it would really make my day should you point me to another one. :)

Well, they are all artists in their own way. Perhaps the connection is found in that direction? Perhaps they are all famous for the same reasons?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Yin Yang"