The Great Mahler Debate

[Grazioso]

71 dB, you should remember that this is classical music, high art that deserves full attention and engagement by the listener in the same way great literature or painting does its readers or viewers. Of course, one can listen to music as background noise or just skim the surface for the emotional kicks, but classical music offers much more than that if you're willing to dig into it. A couple hours with a major composer are not enough to make any realistic judgment as to worth or complexity. That's like watching one performance of Hamlet and making pronouncements about Shakespeare.

[Sergeant Rock]

Sarge, I completely sympathize with your pique. But 71 seems like a good person, and I personally have made the same type of knee jerk reactions to certain works as he.
Hell, it was only about 6 months ago that I was having one hell of a time "getting" Beethoven's 3rd. I went on this forum complaining about its lack of melody ( ), its overall inaccessibility, etc ( ). I think I commited a far worse form of knee-jerk error overall.
But all of you kind folks on the board were so patient...I just feel that 71 deserves the same treatment.
Believe me, I know how irritating it can be when a member tends to publicly proclaim his or her seeming dismissiveness. But we are all overall more charitable than this. Let's just point 71 toward the great Mahler recordings, so at least he'll have the oppurtunity to make a more informed opinion.

Andy, I'm not going to waste any more space on this thread discussing dB. I've PMd a reply.

Sarge

[71 dB]

71 dB, you should remember that this is classical music, high art that deserves full attention and engagement by the listener in the same way great literature or painting does its readers or viewers. Of course, one can listen to music as background noise or just skim the surface for the emotional kicks, but classical music offers much more than that if you're willing to dig into it. A couple hours with a major composer are not enough to make any realistic judgment as to worth or complexity. That's like watching one performance of Hamlet and making pronouncements about Shakespeare.

Why do you think I am not giving Mahler my full attention? What did I say to make you think I listen to it as background noise?

The fact that Mahler hasn't blown me away does not mean I am a newbie in classical music. On the contrary, it is a sign of criticality.

[Valentino]

Started reading this thead in hope of learning something. The only thing I've learned thus far is that I shall contine my traversal through his symphonies, and get proper recordings of his orchestral songs.

So where do I go for his third symphony? (I have Bernstein on DG in #1 and CBSO/Rattle in #2.)

[Cato]

Started reading this thead in hope of learning something. The only thing I've learned thus far is that I shall contine my traversal through his symphonies, and get proper recordings of his orchestral songs.

So where do I go for his third symphony? (I have Bernstein on DG in #1 and CBSO/Rattle in #2.)

"All we are aaaaskiiiing,
Is give BOULEZ a chaaaance!"

On DGG.

[Harry]

Again I have to clean my keyboard, so I have to switch to the laptop for a while!

[Haffner]

Okay, I listened Mahler 7 last night. 9th is my favorite so far but I keep exploring.

The 9th is my favorite too, but don't miss out on the 4th!

[Haffner]

Andy, I'm not going to waste any more space on this thread discussing dB. I've PMd a reply.

Sarge

Got it, and I'm very grateful for the explanation, Sarge.

[71 dB]

The 9th is my favorite too, but don't miss out on the 4th!

The 4th won't be missed.  Perhaps I listen to it next...

[Haffner]

The 4th won't be missed.  Perhaps I listen to it next...

I remain blown away by Mahler's choice of instrumentation/orchetration in that one. I'll bet Shostakovich had heard performances or read scores of Mahler's 4th before penning his 5th Symphony (which of course also features amazing orchestration).

[71 dB]

I remain blown away by Mahler's choice of instrumentation/orchetration in that one. I'll bet Shostakovich had heard performances or read scores of Mahler's 4th before penning his 5th Symphony (which of course also features amazing orchestration).

Thanks Andy, I'll pay extra attention to orchestration then. 

[Sergeant Rock]

So where do I go for his third symphony? (I have Bernstein on DG in #1 and CBSO/Rattle in #2.)

The Third has been lucky on record. I doubt I would object to any version anyone would recommend here. You can't go wrong with MTT, Chailly, Bernstein, Abbado, Boulez, Haitink...the old Horenstein too has much going for it. They all have their passionate advocates. My favorite is OOP or I'd mention that one too. Heather has been spending a lot of time with the Third. I'd be interested in hearing which version she liked best.

By the way, I like your systematic approach to Mahler.

Sarge

[Haffner]

The Third has been lucky on record. I doubt I would object to any version anyone would recommend here. You can't go wrong with MTT, Chailly, Bernstein, Abbado, Boulez, Haitink...the old Horenstein too has much going for it. They all have their passionate advocates. My favorite is OOP or I'd mention that one too. Heather has been spending a lot of time with the Third. I'd be interested in hearing which version she liked best.

By the way, I like your systematic approach to Mahler.

Sarge

Haven't heard the Horenstein, but I have the Bernstein set, and I don't think one could do too wrong just grabbing the Bernstein (that is, if one isn't quite the collector we are, Sarge!).


Sometimes the Bernstein set isn't completely satisfactory recording wise. But I really have grown to adore the performances, especially the 8th and 9th...fantastic and emotion provoking.

Just my opinion!

[Haffner]

Thanks Andy, I'll pay extra attention to orchestration then. 

Listening to your symphony now, it certainly sounds like you know quite a bit about orchestration! I'm enjoying the 4th movement now.

[71 dB]

Listening to your symphony now, it certainly sounds like you know quite a bit about orchestration! I'm enjoying the 4th movement now.

Wow! I am so taken you like my symphony! In fact I have always felt my low movement sounds a bit Mahlerian... 

I like Mahler's use of brass instruments and harp! The use of wood instruments is good too.

[Haffner]

Wow! I am so taken you like my symphony! In fact I have always felt my low movement sounds a bit Mahlerian... 

Maybe a little. But I like best that you have your own thing going in this symphony, your influences don't show that much. A good thing, in my humble opinion.

[karlhenning]

"All we are aaaaskiiiing,
Is give BOULEZ a chaaaance!"

I'm even going to give the Erato disc with Phyllis Bryn-Julson singing Pli selon pli another chance!  Testify, brother!

[71 dB]

Maybe a little. But I like best that you have your own thing going in this symphony, your influences don't show that much. A good thing, in my humble opinion.

Thank you Andy! My influences come from several music genres and I try to use them on high abstract level. Anyway, I don't mind if people recognise the influences.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Thank you Andy! My influences come from several music genres and I try to use them on high abstract level. Anyway, I don't mind if people recognise the influences.

You write music?

[71 dB]

You write music?

Well, I would not say I write it but I have made music with computer almost 15 years.
Andy was talking about my 2nd symphony (2003) which can be downloaded here.