Ottevanger's Omphaloskeptic Outpost

[karlhenning]

I seem to be listening in reverse order :-)

Started with the Sonata, which is charming.  The recording of the Nightingale Sonata sounds distant, but I like what I hear, there, too!

[lukeottevanger]

The recording of the Nightingale Sonata sounds distant...

Yes, it is - the problem was the room I recorded it in, and the piano I was playing. The beginning is very quiet indeed, but it gets a little clangorous in the middle, and too much so on this recording. I've been trying to smooth things out a little today, so I might be able to post a better rendering later.

[Guido]

What do you see as the problems with the Nightingale Sonata? - I really like this too.

Also my comments about the 'uneasyness' that I feel don't apply to the modal piano sonata - just the Canticle Sonata. Maybe the modes used in the piano Sonata are more similar to the familiar major/minor modes?

[lukeottevanger]

What do you see as the problems with the Nightingale Sonata? - I really like this too.

Thanks!

Well, it is somewhat clunky and simplistic in figuration at times - deliberately so. As I said earlier, it has a kind of 'rural' aspect, lacking sophistication. It's quite Ivesian, though, not in sound but in its inspiration - themes of transcendentalism of place, time etc. - and also in some details which the score reveals quite clearly.

Also my comments about the 'uneasyness' that I feel don't apply to the modal piano sonata - just the Canticle Sonata. Maybe the modes used in the piano Sonata are more similar to the familiar major/minor modes?

No, in both Sonatas the basic modes are pretty simple and rich in straightforward tonal implications - the opening phrases of the Canticle Sonata circle around clear tonal centres (G minor, E flat, B flat, F minor...) just as much as the opening phrases of the piano Sonata, I think. But in the piano piece I don't use any derived modes until the coda, where they effect a kind of disintegration and disappearance. In the Canticle Sonata I make more use of combined modes - 'development' section of first movement, certain sections of the last movement - and one use of total chromaticism (which can be explained as any mode + its negation if one is so minded!) in the very centre of the sonata at the middle of the second movement.

So in fact, your 'uneasiness' might be being caused less by the 'floating harmonies' of the six note modes as by the more complex harmonies created when modes are combined and derived, especially when that gives more notes and a greater degree of chromaticism. Though of course I may be very wrong in this assumption.

[lukeottevanger]

Most recent version of Nightingale Sonata score attached. Only very minor alterations from previous version - this one is a tiny bit closer to the recording, though.


Edit - as I'm looking at the piece more this evening, I'm spotting a few other things that need changing. So I'll take this down for now and repost an even more final (  ) version soon.

[Guido]

You might be right... I don't know!

Well, it is somewhat clunky and simplistic in figuration at times - deliberately so. As I said earlier, it has a kind of 'rural' aspect, lacking sophistication. It's quite Ivesian, though, not in sound but in its inspiration - themes of transcendentalism of place, time etc. - and also in some details which the score reveals quite clearly.

Just goes to show that complexity isn't everything - The Lark Ascending is also very simple, but oh so effective!

[lukeottevanger]

There's another odd thing about it, which I discussed once before in passing, and that is that the score is just not as pleasing to the eye as [most of] my other pieces. Not to my eye, anyway. Not that this matters in itself, not in the slightest - but it is an indication that something qualitatively different is going on in this piece. Not better or worse, just different.

[lukeottevanger]

Just goes to show that complexity isn't everything - The Lark Ascending is also very simple, but oh so effective!

Interesting, given the subject matter and rural Englishness of my piece, that you should draw this comparison. And squirm-inducingly humbling! 

[lukeottevanger]

Spent the last hour or so mucking around with the recording of the Nightingale Sonata trying to make it more presentable. I might be getting somewhere, but the problem is making the quiet music at the beginning louder only serves to make the pedal noises and intense reverb. etc. more prominent. So don't hold your collective breath....

[lukeottevanger]

OK, this new version of the Nightingale Sonata recording is the best I can manage - heavily compressed, the quiet stuff louder and the loud stuff quieter, and with some attempt to blend out the worst thumps and bumps. Best not to listen on headphones, I must say!

Whilst visiting the esnips site, I saw that I received my first comment 10 days ago (you can see how little I visit it!). I wasn't fully conscious that this was a possibility - unlike others there, I don't use the site for its 'community' features (why would I when I have GMG  ?) or for hawking my wares. No tagging or slideshows or descriptions of any sort from me, thank you! So I was a bit surprised to get a comment at all. Quite an odd one, really - about my piece 'X':

Nice piano work.This is easy listening at its best.

!!! Don't know what to make of that! Listen to the piece and see if you agree....

[karlhenning]

I'm going to download trhe score for the Sonata, Luke.  I think that Ed might want to play it for an opening Voluntary some Sunday.

[karlhenning]

Small notational remark on the Sonata, which may just be a matter of preference;  but to my eye, there are some measures in the LH (say the entire first system, even) where I should find it a little easier to have the LH cast in treble clef, so that the low G is third ledger-space below the staff, rather than have the top of the staff crowding between the staves with all those ledger-lines.  OTOH, Luke, if you really prefer it the way as notated, I would not presume to gainsay you :-)

[lukeottevanger]

I'm going to download trhe score for the Sonata, Luke.  I think that Ed might want to play it for an opening Voluntary some Sunday.

Karl, I would be flattered! What a wonderful idea! If he/you think it will work in that way, I'd be very pleased. Only.....can I request a recording if by any chance it goes ahead? 

Small notational remark on the Sonata, which may just be a matter of preference;  but to my eye, there are some measures in the LH (say the entire first system, even) where I should find it a little easier to have the LH cast in treble clef, so that the low G is third ledger-space below the staff, rather than have the top of the staff crowding between the staves with all those ledger-lines.  OTOH, Luke, if you really prefer it the way as notated, I would not presume to gainsay you :-)

You might be right - I don't have very strong feelings about it. It's only a matter of one ledger line, after all! I think I probably went the way I did because I quite like the idea of the piece starting from 'the centre' and gravitating towards higher and lower registers later - but choosing bass clef is only symbolic in that respect, and it the smallest of small deals.

However, as I said the other day, I have made some small alterations to the score, and I'll have a go with your suggestion too. If you're going to print it out, wait until I post the revised version!

[karlhenning]

Only.....can I request a recording if by any chance it goes ahead?

My dear fellow, I am counting on it! 

[lukeottevanger]

OK, a couple of revised scores:

Sonata - just some tiny note changes. I didn't change the clef at the beginning because doing so would make things tricky soon after, where the left hand begins to descend a little further down.

and

Nightingale Sonata - again, the changes are tiny, and in this case don't really affect the notes at all, except for one small corrected misprint

[Guido]

What news from the outpost?

EDIT: While we're waiting how about a flame war?

perlman, stern, szigeti, szeryng, milstein, kogan, haendel, heifetz, elman, menuhin, kreisler, oistrakh, mintz, shaham, gitlis, wieniawsi, zuckerman, bell, joachim, auer, kremer, vengerov, rabin.

All the great violinists were Jewish. It is impossible to be both a Christian, and a good musician*. So... yeah. Maybe this is too controversial for a flame war. Or maybe you're just a big Christian.

(*Please ignore Rostropovich and Casals. Let's limit ourselves to violinists here)

[lukeottevanger]

Hang on, fella. You're making the basic mistake of confusing violinists with musicians here. 

[Guido]

Last post was too much... deleted.

[karlhenning]

Last post was too much... deleted.

Oh, now you've done it.

Put on that asbestos underwear, dude!

[lukeottevanger]

Yeah, I saw it, Guido. Shocked to the core, I was... 

Anyway, as regards the Outpost itself, and the [lack of] activity it documents - no, I haven't done anything at all recently. But then, looking through my scores the other day, it occured to me - don't know why it hasn't before, perhaps because there are some exceptions - that I tend to do most of my composing between about May and October. As the sun comes out I seem to become more creative! Certainly I think there's stuff bubbling underneath, so I'm hoping that spring will bring more music