Ottevanger's Omphaloskeptic Outpost

Started by lukeottevanger, April 06, 2007, 02:24:08 PM

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lukeottevanger

#180
Well, yes, I am, but it would be hard to say whether that was because of their own intrinsic qualities or simply because of associations the piece may have for me, which are presumably stronger in the composer of a piece than in any other listener. In fact, as you'll have noticed I do sometimes get very bound up with my pieces and find it hard to disentangle myself from then when I've finished, to step back and adjudge them coolly. Witness my last two or three posts. :-\

In the spirit of humilty I'd suggest that the latter is more true than the former; that is, that if some of my pieces move me it is because they have associations more than because they are particularly good. But also, in fact, I'm sure that the power of association is much stronger than we tend to realise anyway, so that even a bona fide masterpiece by a proper composer might move me more because of an association it has for me than because of the piece itself. Quality doesn't necessarily come into it at all, in fact - remember Noel Coward's line about the potencty of cheap music? In the end, then, it's hard to say where one ends and the other begins.

That was a bit of a ramble, wasn't it?  ;) Anyway, FWIW, the pieces of mine which move me most, if that is the word, are:

the Four Paz Songs - in this case, apart from happy student memories, the music doesn't really have any assocations for me; I still tend to think this is one of my better works and the formal trajectory of the music is quite affecting, I feel.

the Through the Year children's pieces - these are bound up with my own children, with memories of my own childhood; they are mild, gentle and also I think very English pieces. Again, I find it hard to judge their quality - part of me thinks they are the best thing I've ever done, perhaps because they affect me so strongly. Part of me thinks, don't be stupid, man.

the Unfinished Study for 'autobiographical' reasons gone into on the previous thread

the Nightingale Sonata - I've put this one up on the previous thread and again in this one, but for some reason hardly discussed it. In contrast to the first two works I mentioned, I'm pretty sure this one must be full of holes and flaws. But over and above that, it says exactly what I wanted it to say (and you know I think that directness, humanity and honesty is more important than mere slick technique any day, as I've said recently about Tippett and as I've repeated ad nauseum about Janacek). The piece springs from a deep place and experience, I think, and I can't hear it without their being summoned up again.

the recent piano Sonata as much as any of these pieces, because in my mind it is very much bound up with my grandmother who died earlier this year. Again I obviously find it hard to hear this piece without those thoughts in mind, but I do think that this piece too, thanks partly to that modal technique, probably has quite a strong formal trajectory like the Paz Songs and the new Canticle Sonata which are quite affecting in themselves.

I'm coming to find the last pages of my new Canticle Sonata quite moving too, I must say; their simplified recollection of the opening of the first movement works quite well in this respect I think.

But, as I say, for the reasons I've outlined I often find it very hard to judge my own works, and am eager to hear other opinions.



Maciek

This gave me an idea: in the listmania spirit, why don't we start a "5 of my own works that I find most moving" thread? That would help Guido explore the notion further...

Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 25, 2007, 02:05:03 AM
OK, level with me! If 6 of you have downloaded the piece and only one has commented, am I to take that as an implicit negative response? That's not fishing - I ask because I too am turning against the piece somewhat! I was so involved in writing it that I began to find it hard to assess its quality; revisiting it now that I haven't looked at the score for a couple of days, I feel rather deflated. Note-to-note it is mostly OK or better, I think, it still 'sounds like me' (not always something I am comfy with, as I'm not always comfy with myself, but which, as I've emphasized in the past, I prize highly in music) and there are some solid and interesting structural features. But the whole thing seems quite impersonal, perhaps because of over-thinking, perhaps because it is a relatively formal piece which doesn't always sit comfortably with me. Or is that conclusion overly omphaloskeptic in itself?  ;D :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\

Perhaps this is a way for me to discover, once and for all, what I suspected - that I am better in 1) smaller forms and 2) more intuitive composition. Well, so be it - I may just return in that direction.

Of course, it may turn out that you all love the piece, in which case, ignore all that - it is obviously an utter masterpiece ;D

I can't say anything as I'd like to listen to the recording first. And for some reason downloading the file crashes my browser. This has nothing to do with you, Luke - it's a problem I've had before. To make it work, I need to remove the WMP plug-in. Problem is, either I can't find it, or its name has changed... >:( I'll get it done this week, I hope. Just don't have the time to sieve through those files right now (and I was away during the weekend).

Maciek

Guido

Thanks Luke - interesting stuff. (No I don't remember Noel Coward's line - sorry!)

Karl - your thoughts?
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

lukeottevanger

Quote from: MrOsa on May 28, 2007, 02:23:27 PM
To make it work, I need to remove the WMP plug-in.

Would it help if I could get the file into another format?

Maciek

Quote from: MrOsa on May 28, 2007, 02:23:27 PM
This gave me an idea: in the listmania spirit, why don't we start a "5 of my own works that I find most moving" thread? That would help Guido explore the notion further...

I just realized this may not sound serious. Well, it is - only I don't think the thread would get enough responses to make it worthwhile. But it would be interesting for us heathen to watch composers forced (well, almost) to make those choices and to come out into the open about their feelings... >:D

Maciek

Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 28, 2007, 02:31:16 PM
Would it help if I could get the file into another format?

Probably. But I need to remove that plug-in anyway because it's messing my internet browsing all the time - it simply doesn't work well with neither Opera nor Mozilla. >:(

lukeottevanger

Quote from: MrOsa on May 28, 2007, 02:33:15 PM
I just realized this may not sound serious. Well, it is - only I don't think the thread would get enough responses to make it worthwhile.

Please feel free to host the party here, Maciek! ;D

Quote from: MrOsa on May 28, 2007, 02:33:15 PM
But it would be interesting for us heathen to watch composers forced (well, almost) to make those choices and to come out into the open about their feelings... >:D

Yes, indeed - 'twas a most cathartic experience. Though with my obvious introspective tendencies, it wasn't exactly difficult for me to do ;D

Maciek


greg

no way........ i just noticed this thread today, can you believe that?!  :o

and it looks like there's a bunch of stuff at the first page- nice! gotta check that stuff out

lukeottevanger

Quote from: greg on May 28, 2007, 03:08:28 PM
no way........ i just noticed this thread today, can you believe that?!  :o

and it looks like there's a bunch of stuff at the first page- nice! gotta check that stuff out

That's all stuff that was put up on the old board, not sure if you downloaded it there or not. I seem to remember you got some of it at least. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!

greg

Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 28, 2007, 03:11:32 PM
That's all stuff that was put up on the old board, not sure if you downloaded it there or not. I seem to remember you got some of it at least. Anyway, I hope you enjoy it!
:)
yep, i think i'll download all of it at once first and then listen to it all and then comment (might take awhile).

the other stuff was partial files, lasting less than a minute  :P (yeah, that was very frustrating)

lukeottevanger

Quote from: greg on May 28, 2007, 03:17:37 PM
:)
yep, i think i'll download all of it at once first and then listen to it all and then comment (might take awhile).

the other stuff was partial files, lasting less than a minute  :P (yeah, that was very frustrating)

Yes, I remember now - they weren't supposed to be partial files, I uploaded them whole! But Filelodge had problems and eventually shut down altogether. What I'm using now is much better and more user-friendly.

greg


Maciek

Luke, you're wasting your time on "Who's Online" again! $:) Why not post something interesting and worthwhile instead? 8) Like I'm doing right now... ;D

Maciek

lukeottevanger

Quote from: MrOsa on May 31, 2007, 03:40:14 PM
Luke, you're wasting your time on "Who's Online" again! $:) Why not post something interesting and worthwhile instead? 8) Like I'm doing right now... ;D

Maciek

Yes, I saw you checking out Who's Online whilst I was doing the same ;D. You know me - 'I have nothing to say and I am saying it and that is poetry', as Cage said. Or rather, as usual I'll wait for someone else to say something interesting first. In that spirit, have you got anything to add here?

Guido

QuoteLuke, you're wasting your time on "Who's Online" again!  Why not post something interesting and worthwhile instead?  Like I'm doing right now...
Yeah!... yeah..
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Maciek

Quote from: lukeottevanger on May 31, 2007, 03:45:25 PM
In that spirit, have you got anything to add here?

Yes, I'd like to say I find Guido's last post interesting and very intriguing...

I hope it's only the beginning of a whole series...

lukeottevanger


Guido

It was more a visual representation of a great xclamation of agreement, and then realising that I was falling into the same self referential trap... or something... I suppose it could be a whole series... if you wanted... or something
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away

Guido

QuoteI hope it's only the beginning of a whole series...

Hey wait a minute! What are you saying about my previous posts?!!

And that's an exciting spelling of exclamation in the last post. I won't change it. Not ever.
Geologist.

The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away