Elgar, as good a composer as......

[JoshLilly]

Here you're just grinding an axe and making assumptions.

No.

Example: I like The Mikado a great deal more than I like Parsifal. I would never claim The Mikado is the greater of the two works.

I guess I really can't relate to this, even though I know a lot of people feel the same way. I've read and heard this for years, and maybe I'll never get it. I suppose people can say anything they want is great.

[lukeottevanger]

Example: I like The Mikado a great deal more than I like Parsifal. I would never claim The Mikado is the greater of the two works.

Wagner and Sullivan aren't completely disconnected, of course - am I alone in wondering whether 'Behold the Lord High Executioner' is a parody of Wotan and his spear....?

[Harry]

And again as if nothing has happened the one liner rant against Elgar goes on.
I don't think I like it anymore to be on GMG.....

[Larry Rinkel]

And again as if nothing has happened the one liner rant against Elgar goes on.

Where?

[Harry]

Where?

On the listening thread.

[drogulus]

     It's interesting (to me at least) that a non-mediocrity is the more or less official whipping boy for those who would discipline our tastes. No one wastes time with a Dittersdorf. That's because there's nothing at stake with a real mediocrity. The real reason for Elgar mockery is not some want of merit, but rather a want of coolness. Elgar is the greatest fuddy-duddy of all time, and all the present and former hipsters on this board get a virtual toothache at the thought of him.

      Take another look at that list. Elgar mockery has little to do with what is on it.

       That said, I find some of Elgar clanky, spotty, and unfocussed. Listening to one of his ceremonial pieces recently I got the impression that it was going nowhere, and in all directions at that.

[Larry Rinkel]

That said, I find some of Elgar, clanky, spotty, and unfocussed. Listening to one of his ceremonial pieces recently I got the impression that it was going nowhere, and in all directions at that.

Does that make you either a present or a former hipster, and are your remarks intended to discipline our tastes?

[knight66]

I have removed the posts on this thread from this point and apologise to those of you who had written posts that were not part of the problem. I was pretty disgusted at some of the other stuff, insulting and bullying. Any more like that....about anyone; it gets binned.

Mike

[Great Gable]

I have removed the posts on this thread from this point and apologise to those of you who had written posts that were not part of the problem. I was pretty disgusted at some of the other stuff, insulting and bullying. Any more like that....about anyone; it gets binned.

Mike

Well done! 

[Thom]

I second that   

[Harry]

Well I do not know what is removed from my thread, but if Mike is getting angry he is getting even, right.
I will see what it was in my email notification
It was a interesting read what was in my email, and I agree with Mike, some of it was pretty disgusting.
It came from the people I expected this from. Why they lack the ability to discuss fair and square is beyond me, for there was really insulting stuff there, and I did not deserve that. However I am made of sterner stuff these days, and it will not touch me.
But it was a right decision to remove the postings for they were not funny as Thom said.
I am a friendly person, and I would never harm anyone on purpose. Neither did I rant in a negative way about Wagner as Perfect Wagnerite said.
Some of the people are old enough to be wise enough, and not participating in such bashing. The why is really eluding me.....
But I learned a thing or two about some posters that stood in high regard on this forum for me. That has effectively be ended now. And about this I am heartily sorry, I really am....
I leave the thread open, maybe there are posters willing to take up the good work, and give Elgar back his right place...

[71 dB]

I find some of Elgar clanky, spotty, and unfocussed.

I think I am beginning to understand what's the problem. We all have criteria to what is good music. For you good music must be focused, non-clanky and non-spotty. I have completely different rules. I listen to very many music genres. Believe me, Elgar is not clanky, spotty or unfocused compared to Breakbeat (listen to Acen's "Trip to the Moon" and you know what I mean).

I allow music freedom. It can be clanky, spotty, unfocused, crazy, superfast. The only thing that matters is whether I like it or not. I try to understand the musical principles behind the work. Some music is based on clankyness and who am I to tell that's a wrong approach to make interesting music? For me it is horrible to say you can't make art in a certain way!

For me Elgar's music is very focused in it's multidimensional sophistication and it's also just enough "clanky" and "spotty". I will never admit my approach or point of view is wrong. I am very confident I am right saying Elgar was a remarkable composer.

[Bonehelm]

I think I am beginning to understand what's the problem. We all have criteria to what is good music. For you good music must be focused, non-clanky and non-spotty. I have completely different rules. I listen to very many music genres. Believe me, Elgar is not clanky, spotty or unfocused compared to Breakbeat (listen to Acen's "Trip to the Moon" and you know what I mean).

I allow music freedom. It can be clanky, spotty, unfocused, crazy, superfast. The only thing that matters is whether I like it or not. I try to understand the musical principles behind the work. Some music is based on clankyness and who am I to tell that's a wrong approach to make interesting music? For me it is horrible to say you can't make art in a certain way!

For me Elgar's music is very focused in it's multidimensional sophistication and it's also just enough "clanky" and "spotty". I will never admit my approach or point of view is wrong. I am very confident I am right saying Elgar was a remarkable composer.

Of course you are right about that. Otherwise textbooks and scholars wouldn't be suggesting Elgar as one of the most significant composers in the 20th century. But what you are wrong about, is that some of the posters here are inable to realize or appreciate what you think is good music because they are "brainwashed". You are in no position (neither is any of us here) to make faulty assumptions or call others bad names  just because they have different tastes. A lot of personal attacks thrown your way were due to anger and frustration caused  by reading your posts about how your favourite composer is somehow better than other's favourite, and how Bruckner wrote his 8th 5 times less sophisticated than an Elgar symphony. You should always keep in mind that you and NO ONE should make big statements like that without support backing themselves up. You and your failure to prove that Elgar was more sophisticated in orchestration with specific examples like posting up a score and discuss about it is the main thing people are after. If you merely stated your views and thoughts about your favourite composer, believe me, 90% or even 95% of the posts against you and Elgar could be prevented, reflected by the number of members here that actually like Elgar deep down.

So you're on the right track, finally--just stay away for a while and let all this madness calm down, you, Elgar haters, admirers, D minor D major, Karl, whoever. And when all of this slowly dies down maybe someone will finally make meaningful Elgar appreciation threads that enable all of us to share our ideas and thoughts on this favourite composers of yours without getting bashed on by the rest of the forum.

That's all I have to say. Hope you have the chance to read it.

[71 dB]

Yes, people here are not as brainwashed as I have said but I also want to make clear we ALL are constantly in a danger to be brainwashed. BE AWARE! Every article you read, every commercial you see on TV, every source of (dis)information may try to brainwash you.

[Great Gable]

Yes, people here are not as brainwashed as I have said but I also want to make clear we ALL are constantly in a danger to be brainwashed. BE AWARE! Every article you read, every commercial you see on TV, every source of (dis)information may try to brainwash you.

I'll eat my hat and anyone else's if anyone magages to brainwash me. Trust no-one and believe nothing, that's my motto!

[Harry]

Of course you are right about that. Otherwise textbooks and scholars wouldn't be suggesting Elgar as one of the most significant composers in the 20th century. But what you are wrong about, is that some of the posters here are inable to realize or appreciate what you think is good music because they are "brainwashed". You are in no position (neither is any of us here) to make faulty assumptions or call others bad names  just because they have different tastes. A lot of personal attacks thrown your way were due to anger and frustration caused  by reading your posts about how your favourite composer is somehow better than other's favourite, and how Bruckner wrote his 8th 5 times less sophisticated than an Elgar symphony. You should always keep in mind that you and NO ONE should make big statements like that without support backing themselves up. You and your failure to prove that Elgar was more sophisticated in orchestration with specific examples like posting up a score and discuss about it is the main thing people are after. If you merely stated your views and thoughts about your favourite composer, believe me, 90% or even 95% of the posts against you and Elgar could be prevented, reflected by the number of members here that actually like Elgar deep down.

So you're on the right track, finally--just stay away for a while and let all this madness calm down, you, Elgar haters, admirers, D minor D major, Karl, whoever. And when all of this slowly dies down maybe someone will finally make meaningful Elgar appreciation threads that enable all of us to share our ideas and thoughts on this favourite composers of yours without getting bashed on by the rest of the forum.

That's all I have to say. Hope you have the chance to read it.

If you don't like the way posters write their opinions down, then ignore them, but do not write such angry posts and polute the thing again.
Thank you!

[Harry]

Yes, people here are not as brainwashed as I have said but I also want to make clear we ALL are constantly in a danger to be brainwashed. BE AWARE! Every article you read, every commercial you see on TV, every source of (dis)information may try to brainwash you.

That may be Poju, but please stop writings these things. They harm you, and wreck the thread once again.
Thank you.
Back to Elgar and the works he composed.

[Harry]

I'll eat my hat and anyone else's if anyone magages to brainwash me. Trust no-one and believe nothing, that's my motto!

Agreed, but the manipulation applied is sometimes on a high level.....

[Great Gable]

Agreed, but the manipulation applied is sometimes on a high level.....

And especially NEVER believe anyone at a high level Harry!

[Harry]

And especially NEVER believe anyone at a high level Harry!

Well I don't, always follow my own heart, head.....