Adams' Apple-Cart (John Coolidge, that is!)

Started by Greta, November 13, 2007, 01:13:07 PM

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vers la flamme

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2020, 09:29:20 AM
I thought you liked his Janáček recording?

I'm coming around on it. I picked it up used for cheap at a record store a few months back, didn't care for either of the works on first listen, but as of the past week or so I've been revisiting it and finding more to enjoy in it, the Sinfonietta in particular. I'll have to listen to the Glagolitic Mass again soon. But in any case I give Janáček more credit than MTT for this discovery.

Mirror Image

#201
Quote from: vers la flamme on March 11, 2020, 09:47:36 AM
I'm coming around on it. I picked it up used for cheap at a record store a few months back, didn't care for either of the works on first listen, but as of the past week or so I've been revisiting it and finding more to enjoy in it, the Sinfonietta in particular. I'll have to listen to the Glagolitic Mass again soon. But in any case I give Janáček more credit than MTT for this discovery.

But if the performances were mediocre, then who would you be blaming then --- the composer? He obviously had no involvement with it. ;) It sounds like to me you just can't admit that you actually like one of MTT's recordings. :) Oh and Janáček is a brilliant composer. One of my favorites.

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2020, 09:49:08 AM
But if the performances were mediocre, then who would you be blaming then --- the composer? He obviously had no involvement with it. ;) It sounds like to me you just can't admit that you actually like one of MTT's recordings. :) Oh and Janáček is a brilliant composer. One of my favorites.

Fine, fine, I admit it. It's a good recording. ;D Yes, I'm happy to be coming around on Janáček, I've enjoyed much of what I've heard of his work. And I guess I owe it to myself to give more of MTT's recordings a chance.

Mirror Image

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 11, 2020, 09:58:11 AM
Fine, fine, I admit it. It's a good recording. ;D Yes, I'm happy to be coming around on Janáček, I've enjoyed much of what I've heard of his work. And I guess I owe it to myself to give more of MTT's recordings a chance.

Hah! :D Another composer MTT does incredibly well in is Ives.

vers la flamme

Quote from: Mirror Image on March 11, 2020, 10:01:28 AM
Hah! :D Another composer MTT does incredibly well in is Ives.

I've got one of the MTT Ives CDs; Symphony No.3 and Orchestral Suite No.2 with the RCO. I haven't given up on it yet, but I have not been as impressed as I have been with the Bernstein Ives recordings I also have. Ives is not a composer I consider to be a favorite, but I recognize his importance and do enjoy some of his music. I'll try and give that disc a listen today or tomorrow.

Mirror Image

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 11, 2020, 10:05:48 AM
I've got one of the MTT Ives CDs; Symphony No.3 and Orchestral Suite No.2 with the RCO. I haven't given up on it yet, but I have not been as impressed as I have been with the Bernstein Ives recordings I also have. Ives is not a composer I consider to be a favorite, but I recognize his importance and do enjoy some of his music. I'll try and give that disc a listen today or tomorrow.

Ives was one of the first composers I got into and left a huge impression on me. I can certainly understand how Ives would be difficult for some listeners.

Anyway back to Adams... (even though I've got nothing to say about this composer) :)

Maestro267

Quote from: vers la flamme on March 11, 2020, 08:46:24 AM
I think I'm going to get the Rattle/CBSO recording of this work. I didn't realize it was symphonic in any way, but I have not heard it all.

Anything can be symphonic in the 20th century. Harmonielehre is a substantial statement in three movements for a large symphony orchestra. Ticks all the boxes of what can broadly be termed A Symphony.

kyjo

Quote from: Maestro267 on March 13, 2020, 01:52:20 AM
Anything can be symphonic in the 20th century. Harmonielehre is a substantial statement in three movements for a large symphony orchestra. Ticks all the boxes of what can broadly be termed A Symphony.

+1 Harmonielehre is an incredible work! I've also recently been struck by his "choral symphony" Harmonium, a work of thrilling, intoxicating energy:

https://youtu.be/BM0w3kukbQs
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Mirror Image

Quote from: kyjo on June 05, 2020, 01:37:49 PM
+1 Harmonielehre is an incredible work! I've also recently been struck by his "choral symphony" Harmonium, a work of thrilling, intoxicating energy:

https://youtu.be/BM0w3kukbQs

Harmonium is a fantastic work, Kyle. What other Adams works do you enjoy besides Harmonium and Harmonielehre?

kyjo

Quote from: Mirror Image on June 05, 2020, 02:13:00 PM
Harmonium is a fantastic work, Kyle. What other Adams works do you enjoy besides Harmonium and Harmonielehre?

Well, most pieces I've heard by him, pretty much: The Chairman Dances, Century Rolls, Shaker Loops, Scheherazade.2, Absolute Jest, and Fellow Traveler, to name a few. I tend to be rather skeptical about contemporary composers who garner a lot of "hype" but I think in Adams' case it's mostly deserved, although of course there are many other contemporary composers who should get more exposure but don't.
"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" - Sergei Rachmaninoff

Mirror Image

#210
Quote from: kyjo on June 05, 2020, 02:50:24 PM
Well, most pieces I've heard by him, pretty much: The Chairman Dances, Century Rolls, Shaker Loops, Scheherazade.2, Absolute Jest, and Fellow Traveler, to name a few. I tend to be rather skeptical about contemporary composers who garner a lot of "hype" but I think in Adams' case it's mostly deserved, although of course there are many other contemporary composers who should get more exposure but don't.

Very nice, Kyle. Besides Harmonium, Harmonielehre and Shaker Loops (three masterpieces, IMHO), I also love Naive & Sentimental Music, the Violin Concerto, Grand Pianola Music, The Dharma at Big Sur, My Father Knew Charles Ives, Gnarly Buttons, The Wound-Dresser and his latest work, Must the Devil Have All the Good Tunes? is quite good I must say. Ferociously difficult to perform I imagine, but this is the kind of work that rewards the listener, especially when they go back and listen to it again. I do rather like The Chairman Dances as well. I have never cared for any of his operas and I found the last time I tried to listen to Nixon in China it was a slog to get through, but, of course, I'm not really a huge opera fan to begin with.

CRCulver

For me, the HD release of the Metropolitan Opera production of Nixon in China was the key to getting into that work. It is much more engaging when you can see the visuals. Especially the Madame Mao coloratura soprano part is exciting to watch.

Symphonic Addict

The last work I heard of him was John's Book of Alleged Dances, for string quartet (from this recording):



Thoroughly fun. I recall being quite excited by the vitality and wit of this piece. Recommended for those who don't know it yet.

Adams may be my favorite minimalist composer.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on June 06, 2020, 09:50:05 AM
The last work I heard of him was John's Book of Alleged Dances, for string quartet (from this recording):



Thoroughly fun. I recall being quite excited by the vitality and wit of this piece. Recommended for those who don't know it yet.

Adams may be my favorite minimalist composer.

This is a great work, Cesar. I do wonder, however, if its fair to call Adams a Minimalist when the evolution of the composer is quite noticeable after those works like Harmonielehre, Nixon in China and Shaker Loops for example.

Here's an interesting quote from Adams: "I don't think you can be a great composer unless you have a feeling for harmony." Being a harmonically-minded musician myself, I sympathize with this viewpoint. Besides Adams great sense of rhythm, I think his harmonic language is quite interesting in that he kind of borrows from Late-Romanticism (Impressionism as well) and jazz and found a way to combine them. I think his melodic gifts also don't get mentioned enough, but often his melodies are somehow tied into the rhythms, which lends a unique sound altogether.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 29, 2021, 07:35:55 AM
This is a great work, Cesar. I do wonder, however, if its fair to call Adams a Minimalist when the evolution of the composer is quite noticeable after those works like Harmonielehre, Nixon in China and Shaker Loops for example.

Here's an interesting quote from Adams: "I don't think you can be a great composer unless you have a feeling for harmony." Being a harmonically-minded musician myself, I sympathize with this viewpoint. Besides Adams great sense of rhythm, I think his harmonic language is quite interesting in that he kind of borrows from Late-Romanticism (Impressionism as well) and jazz and found a way to combine them. I think his melodic gifts also don't get mentioned enough, but often his melodies are somehow tied into the rhythms, which lends a unique sound altogether.

I have to agree with all what you expressed here, John. Yes, Adams is far from being minimalist, actually. His sound world is much richer and variegated.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 29, 2021, 07:21:43 PM
I have to agree with all what you expressed here, John. Yes, Adams is far from being minimalist, actually. His sound world is much richer and variegated.

Yes, indeed. Have you heard any of the operas, Cesar? I listened to The Death of Klinghoffer earlier today and enjoyed it immensely. I think the next one I'll listen to is Doctor Atomic.

Symphonic Addict

Quote from: Mirror Image on September 29, 2021, 07:24:49 PM
Yes, indeed. Have you heard any of the operas, Cesar? I listened to The Death of Klinghoffer earlier today and enjoyed it immensely. I think the next one I'll listen to is Doctor Atomic.

No, I haven't, John. I scarcely know some orchestral works and chamber pieces, and that's all. I could be interested in them in the future.
Part of the tragedy of the Palestinians is that they have essentially no international support for a good reason: they've no wealth, they've no power, so they've no rights.

Noam Chomsky

Mirror Image

Quote from: Symphonic Addict on September 29, 2021, 07:40:56 PM
No, I haven't, John. I scarcely know some orchestral works and chamber pieces, and that's all. I could be interested in them in the future.

Here's a video you might be interested in and anyone else who is just getting into Adams' music or what a better understanding of it:

https://www.youtube.com/v/LRCtCB3y7mI

Mirror Image

#218
From the 'Listening' thread -

Quote from: Mirror Image on October 02, 2021, 11:42:41 AM
NP:

Adams
Harmonielehre
Berliners
Adams


From this new arrival -



Stunning! Adams' own take on his classic Harmonielehre is a bit on the slower side, but you can really hear all of the details of the work shine through. Completely exhilarating in its aural beauty.

An absolute first-rate performance of this masterpiece. Adams himself is quite a capable conductor and everything I've heard him conduct has been superb. For those Adams fans here, the Berliner box set is worth every penny even if you just download it for this performance. I'm quite curious to see some the documentaries on the blu-ray discs, especially where Adams talks about the works presented in this set.

Here's some videos that may be of interest:

https://www.youtube.com/v/0WAE6Urqmlc

https://www.youtube.com/v/zHDJQ_kfmCg

violadude1

Lately I've been listening to my composer playlists in alphabetical order (by last name). Next on the list is the American minimalist composer John C. Adams (not to be confused with John L. Adams). What I've listened so far:

Shaker Loops for String Septet (1978) John Adams is often grouped in with Philip Glass and Steve Reich, but it's clear already from this early work that Adams was intent on taking some of their ideas and forging his own path with them. Glass creates emotional expression from the momentum of mantra-like repetition of his musical figures but the actual surface usually remains fairly even-tempered/cool headed, and Reich's musical expression tends more towards an impersonal, almost spiritual, ticking of a sort of grand universal clock. But right away in this early piece by Adams you can hear the passionate, hot-blooded surface of his musical voice that distinguishes him from the other early minimalists and leads some to categorize him as "Neo-romantic" rather than minimalist. However, at least in his early music, he shares their idea of small rhythmic and melodic cells repeated over long stretches of incredibly slow harmonic progression. Nevertheless, this piece is incredibly powerful on and emotional and expressive level. The piece is inspired by the Shakers, a minority Christian sect primarily in the "Midwest" United States (I put Midwest in quotation marks because for those that don't know, the region of the USA called the "Midwest" was named as such before the US government finished their expansion into the West, so the "midwest" is no longer accurately the "midwest" anyway, back to the music). The Shaker's religious services involved lots of dancing an erratic, ecstatic movement and this is what inspired the present work. The first movement, entitled "Shaking and Trembling" is just that, 8 minutes of shaking, quivering, quaking, and stuttering figures from every member of the ensemble. Although these figures start off mild and lightly scored at first, the shaking sixteenth note motif is battered around until it builds to earth shattering levels of momentum and energy. The excitement and passion in the scoring is incredible. Then the second movement, called "Hymning Slews" is one of the most peaceful pieces of music I've heard from Adams. Very little harmonic motion, a few signposts changes here and there, but mostly music of stasis. The music is primarily made of notes that slide serenely into place from moment to moment. It's a welcome contrast to the previous movement. But then the 3rd movement "Loops and Verses" is my favorite. It starts with a gorgeous drawn out melody on the cello accompanied by soft complimentary figures from the other instruments but about 2 minutes in the accompaniment figures take central stage and become the main attraction as the cellos fade into the depths of the ensemble. Soon, canonical figures, based on the cello melody break out and this builds into one of the most shattering, passionate, and sustained climaxes you could hope for, with reapeating motifs that accelerate into motion as if a train is starting up. It really captures the feeling of spiritual fervor. Adam's sense of momentum and building up a moment is incredible even at this early stage. Finally, the last movement, "A Final Shaking", recalls some of the feeling of the first movement, but more ethereal in sound, as if after the intense climax of the last movement we've "crossed to the other side" of religious ecstasy. It's a nice subtle wrap up for this beautiful piece of music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtvrzmzxkEk


Common Tones in Simple Time for Orchestra (1979) This piece, as I hear it, is essentially a study in delightful, shimmering orchestral tones. Very little is going on in this piece besides the shifting of surface level orchestral color, and Adam's himself states that this was his focus (that is the surface change of the music) in writing this piece. It's not the deepest piece of music but it's an incredibly attractive piece that retains a sparkling, magical quality throughout. David Bruce (composer who makes youtube videos) said it reminded him of flying on a place across the United States and looking out the window at the sight, and I think this is an apt description. It certainly has a flighty quality about it. I don't have too much more to say but definitely worth a listen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH2yfw-UkI0&t=2s.

Harmonium for Chorus and Orchestra (1980) This is a humongous work for a giant orchestra and chorus. One could easily label it as the "magnum opus" of Adams' early work. The words the choir sings are taken from three poems, one for each of the three movements. The first is "Negative Love" by John Donne. The other two are by Emily Dickinson, "Because I Could Not Stop for Death.." for the second movement and "Wild Nights!" for the third movement. The architecture of the first movement is very satisfying, coming in waves of build up and climax that seem perfectly timed. But I was especially impressed with the second movement, which is one of the most heart-wrenchingly beautiful pieces of music I've heard from Adams so far. The poem is about someone at the end of their life, "on their way to death", I presume, which is represented by a carriage ride. As their riding on the carriage they look out and see sights that remind them of their youth and their life. The music is contemplative and nostalgic with a shadow of darkness hovering overhead. It's exquisitely scored and the words are set at a beautifully drawn out but not over-wrought pace. This movement transitions into the last movement, Wild Nights, whose music captures a spirit that is just furiously rapturous and euphoric. The timpani beats thunderously, the bells are chiming, the horns are blaring, the strings are soaring as if taking flight and the choir shouts and bellows ecstatically. It's a fantastic movement to top this fantastic piece, by favorite of this group of pieces.

Negative Love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4pPohlQ1Ao
Because I could not stop for death: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWrraPTGRwg
Wild Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRDTcrprBiQ

Grand Pianola Music for two pianos and orchestra (1982) This is a really fun piece. The two pianos in the piece are nearly always playing the same material but slightly out of sync. This creates what Adams' describes as a "unique shimmering effect", which was inspired by the delay effect in electronic composition that composers had been experimenting with. Besides the orchestra, there are three amplified vocal parts, which to my ears bring to mind the vocal parts in something like Reich's "Music for 18 Musicians". Sometimes the voices glide across the orchestra, and sometimes they are yelping staccato notes along with the woodwinds. The voices provide a sense of warmth to me, despite being somewhat spacey and inhuman sounding. The first two movements are nice but the real star of the show is the last, which features a rollicking V-I tune repeated unashamedly with a gaudy, excessive sense of exuberance. Apparently this caused quite a controversy at its New York premiere, set in the context of the modernist atmosphere of that music scene, but it's definitely a super fun one if you can get into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHyb45r-sKk

Light Over Water for Synthesizer and brass ensemble (1983) This is a piece for electronics and a brass ensemble and to me it's the least Adams-y Adams piece of the bunch. The spacey tone and electronic oriented figurations that permeate the piece bring to mind something closer to a Terry Riley piece than an Adams piece. It's a fine listen, but to me for sure the least inspired of this particular group of pieces. And while it has great, ethereally beautiful and interesting moments, it's a little long for the material used. I also can't help but think, in light of everything listened so far, that this is just "A Rainbow on Curved Air part 2 with some brass added".

Funny story as a side note, I fell asleep one night listening to the first movement of this piece. The stabbing sounds that open the second movement (at the beginning of the second link below) woke me up and in my sleep induced stupor, the harsh,stabbing electronic nature of the sounds made me think that there was something seriously malfunctioning with my phone. I freaked out but then remembered what I had been listening to when I fell asleep.  :laugh: :-[

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjkvQtdQpAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvE8JLKQAvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOD6z8lQV1Q

To be continued...