Adams' Apple-Cart (John Coolidge, that is!)

[madaboutmahler]

I listened to Adams' Harmonielehre (Waart/San Francisco Symphony) after that work had been warmly recommended to me; it was wonderful, absolutely wonderful.
I really enjoyed the whole piece, which showed a brilliant orchestration and a splendid harmony, but I was particularly impressed by the second and the third movement, they were very expressive and thrilling. The climaxes used made me shudder, such a great, beautiful music!

I'm looking forward to listening to other Adams' compositions.

So glad to hear that you enjoyed Harmonielehre, Ilaria! Beautiful description, I agree with it all!

I am currently in the process of exploring Adams' works too, although  Harmonielehre has been a favourite for a long time.

[Lisztianwagner]

So glad to hear that you enjoyed Harmonielehre, Ilaria! Beautiful description, I agree with it all!

I am currently in the process of exploring Adams' works too, although  Harmonielehre has been a favourite for a long time.

Thank you, Daniel! You and John didn't exaggerate saying that Harmonielehre was a masterpiece.

Was Adams influenced by Gustav Holst, by the way? I thought of Saturn and Neptune while listening to the second movement, Th Amfortas Wound.....

[Mirror Image]

Thank you, Daniel! You and John didn't exaggerate saying that Harmonielehre was a masterpiece.

Was Adams influenced by Gustav Holst, by the way? I thought of Saturn and Neptune while listening to the second movement, Th Amfortas Wound.....

Check this out, Ilaria:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zHDJQ_kfmCg

[Lisztianwagner]

Check this out, Ilaria:

http://www.youtube.com/v/zHDJQ_kfmCg

Thank you, John!

[Mirror Image]

Was Adams influenced by Gustav Holst, by the way? I thought of Saturn and Neptune while listening to the second movement, Th Amfortas Wound.....

Always interesting how we hear things so differently. I hear a strong Berg influence in The Amfortas Wound.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I hear a strong Berg influence in The Amfortas Wound.

I hear a strong Mahler and Sibelius influence. It starts with a quote or near-quote of Sibelius' 4th Symphony, and the climax with screaming trumpet evokes the Adagio of Mahler's 10th.

[Mirror Image]

I hear a strong Mahler and Sibelius influence. It starts with a quote or near-quote of Sibelius' 4th Symphony, and the climax with screaming trumpet evokes the Adagio of Mahler's 10th.

Quite right, I guess I wasn't far off when I said Berg, especially since Mahler was such an influence on the composer.

[Mirror Image]

Maybe it's just me who hears some Berg in The Amfortas Wound? The moment I'm thinking about is one of the climaxes towards the end where I heard some Expressionistic-type of dissonance. Anyway, just my ears playing tricks on me yet again, but it's just what I hear.

Looking through my Adams recordings and here's what I own:

-Doctor Atomic Symphony, Guide To Strange Places, David Robertson, St. Louis SO, Nonesuch
-Naive & Sentimental Music, Esa-Pekka Salonen, LA Philharmonic, Nonesuch
-The Chairman Dances, Two Fanfares for Orchestra, etc., Edo de Waart, San Francisco SO, Nonesuch
-Harmonium, Edo de Waart, San Francisco SO & Chorus, ECM
-Harmonielehre, Edo de Waart, San Francisco SO, Nonesuch
-Harmonielehre, Short Ride in a Fast Machine, Tilson Thomas, San Francisco SO, SFSO Media
-Harmonielehre, David Robertson, St. Louis SO, Nonesuch (available as download only)
-Harmonielehre, The Chairman Dances, etc., Simon Rattle, City of Birmingham SO, EMI
-Nixon in China, Edo de Waart, Orchestra of St. Luke's, various soloists, Nonesuch
-The Death of Klinghoffer, Kent Nagano, Orchestra of the Opera de Lyon, Nonesuch
-Harmonium, Chorus from 'Death of Klinghoffer,' John Adams, San Francisco SO & Chorus, Orchestra of Opera de Lyon & Chorus, Nonesuch
-Century Rolls, Lollapalooza, Slonimsky's Earbox, Christoph von Dohnanyi, Kent Nagano, Cleveland Orchestra, Halle Orchestra, Emanuel Ax, Nonesuch
-El Nino, various soloists, Kent Nagano, Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin, Theatre of Voices, London Voices, Nonesuch
-El Dorado, etc., John Adams, Kent Nagano, London Sinfonietta, Halle Orchestra, Nonesuch
-Gnarly Buttons, John's Book of Alleged Dances, John Adams, London Sinfonietta, Kronos Quartet, Nonesuch
-Chamber Symphony, Grand Pianola Music, John Adams, London Sinfonietta, Nonesuch
-The Wound-Dresser, Fearful Symmetries, John Adams, Orchestra of St. Luke's, Nonesuch
-The Dharma at Big Sur, My Father Knew Charles Ives, John Adams, Tracy Silverman, BBC Symphony Orchestra, Nonesuch
-Violin Concerto, Shaker Loops, Kent Nagano, London Symphony Orchestra, John Adams, Orchestra of St. Luke's, Gidon Kremer, Nonesuch
-On the Transmigration of Souls, Lorin Maazel, New York Philharmonic, Nonesuch
-A Flowering Tree, John Adams, London Symphony Orchestra, Nonesuch

[Mirror Image]

Ah ha! I knew it. Listening to Harmonielehre right now (MTT/SFSO performance) and I'm on The Amfortas Wound movement and Berg hit me right at 8:57-9:08. A short little phrase that sounds like it was taken right out of Berg's Violin Concerto. I knew Berg was in there somewhere.

[lescamil]

The only kind of expressionism I hear in The Amfortas Wound is the sort of Expressionism that Mahler (arguably) dabbled in, obviously of the Romantic variety. There is undoubtedly a quotation of the climax from the 10th symphony, first movement, and the trumpet solo that heralds that huge chord is there also. Listen to the two side by side and it almost feels like one work bleeds into the other.

[Mirror Image]

The only kind of expressionism I hear in The Amfortas Wound is the sort of Expressionism that Mahler (arguably) dabbled in, obviously of the Romantic variety. There is undoubtedly a quotation of the climax from the 10th symphony, first movement, and the trumpet solo that heralds that huge chord is there also. Listen to the two side by side and it almost feels like one work bleeds into the other.

That section I was talking about in The Amfortas Wound around 8:57-9:08 doesn't sound like it was lifted from Berg's Violin Concerto to you?

[lescamil]

That section I was talking about in The Amfortas Wound around 8:57-9:08 doesn't sound like it was lifted from Berg's Violin Concerto to you?

Actually, that is exactly what I was talking about. The chord has a very similar sonority to the one in Mahler 10, and they both sound like they are similarly constructed. I would do a score comparison of the two, but it is far too late to do that. I don't hear a similarity to the Berg Violin Concerto, personally.

[Luke]

Adams modeled the slow movement of Harmonielehre around Mahler 10 specifically and deliberately. It is both in-your-face obvious and also documented (somewhere, though I am at work and can't recall where!)

Early on in the ancient and by-me much-missed mystery scores thread (AKA Best Thread Ever) I posted one of the pages of this climax, for those who'd like to see the score here: http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,3125.msg75915.html#msg75915

This is the last outburst of the chord, and the extraordinary high violin scream that follows, quickly sinking into a softer bed of sound. A great page of music.

[Mirror Image]

Actually, that is exactly what I was talking about. The chord has a very similar sonority to the one in Mahler 10, and they both sound like they are similarly constructed. I would do a score comparison of the two, but it is far too late to do that. I don't hear a similarity to the Berg Violin Concerto, personally.

I'm not talking about the whole movement sounding like Berg but rather that one little sliver of sound, but I'm done talking about this as this is just what I hear. I've heard Mahler's Adagio many times but I do not hear Mahler in The Amfortas Wound. We all hear things differently.

[Mirror Image]

Time to highlight some compositions by Adams that I truly love:

Violin Concerto -

John Adams' Violin Concerto (1993) represents something of an aesthetic shift for the composer, perhaps reflecting a "post-post-modernist" world view. Continuing in a direction suggested in the early '90s by the increasingly ambiguous harmonies and rhythms of works such as the opera Death of Klinghoffer and the Chamber Symphony, the Violin Concerto's unceasing melody and immediate -- rather than cumulative -- expressivity strike a sharp contrast with the motoric mysticism of Adams' early works. The work follows a traditional three-movement plan: a lengthy, dramatic first movement is followed by a chaconne that is both staid and warmly intimate, which in turn leads into a bustling, high-energy finale. The most prominent remnant of Adams' minimalist beginnings is the use of textural blocks that serve as background for the solo part. The textures, however, are built upon instrumental color and varying figures used in the accompaniment rather than on the steady rhythmic flow and glacial harmonic rhythm typical of the composer's early works. The first movement, titled simply with a metronomic designation (quarter note = 78), begins with a series of eerily rising legato lines in the strings. The soloist enters almost immediately and will hardly find a moment of rest during the course of the work. As the violin explores different modes of melody and figuration, certain ideas are picked up and tossed around by the orchestra, while the initial succession of rising parallel chords in the strings spreads its increasing tension to the winds and brass. The use of synthesizers -- a hallmark of Adams' orchestral music -- contributes to the overall color spectrum while providing distinctive color. As the movement progresses, the rising lines shift from legato to pizzicato as the solo line grows more and more urgent. The accompaniment becomes sparser, completely dissolving with the arrival of the violin's extended cadenza. The cadenza melts into the long, sustained tones of the chaconne. With its subterranean ground bass, this movement exudes a tranquil yet troubled aura akin to fusion of Salvador Dali's "The Persistence of Memory" and Pachelbel's Canon in D (the use of which as source material Adams acknowledges in his notes). Again, electronic sounds provide an ethereality to the familiar bass line, while the orchestra and soloist play both with and against the ear's expectations; some figures are foreign, others similar to Pachelbel's original. As though in contrast to the principle of repetition embodied in Pachelbel's canon, an unobtrusive pattern on the marimba cycles in the background. After the final sustained tones of the second movement evaporate, the Toccata begins with a sudden burst of aggressive energy. Frenzied patterns that appear in defined blocks suddenly break into colorful fragments, creating a variety of gestures and textures that, borne upon the movement's unflagging rhythmic and metric flow, carry the work to its close. This work was composed, as the composer states, "always with the goal of making the musical idea and the reality of its execution one and the same thing." In this sense, the exploratory yet expressive nature of the solo part makes it a work both for and about the violin.

[Taken from All Music Guide]

[Octave]

From the Listening thread:

Now:



It's been a few years since I've heard this opera. I'm finding my impression of it this time around much more favorable. Truly some gorgeous moments throughout.

Did you see the film of it?  I rented it from Netflix last year, or the year before, and wasn't really into it; oddly, being such a film freak, I felt like I would have enjoyed a lavishly-filmed stage production, with the hybrid tilting toward the stage instead of toward cinema, as was attempted by the film.  I also disliked the music, but that's just a small bump in the road; a different day, and on CD, it might click.  I'm still trying to get around to getting an audio recording of NIXON IN CHINA, which I've been delaying for ever; cannot yet decide between De Waart and Alsop.

Did you see the film I AM LOVE (Luca Guadagnino, 2009)?  I was mainly motivated to see it by some totally false grapevine that Adams had contributed original music to the film; unfortunately, the movie just cannibalized some of his hits.  That turned out to be fine, because it worked beautifully (no surprise there) and elevated the film, which was otherwise mostly-lurid, for better and worse.  (I also like melodramas, so my threshold for blarney is fairly high.)  I hope this does not become a trend...it would be terrible to have his music routinized. 

"It's strange to hear your own music used in a context you didn't create," said Adams. "It's kind of disorienting at first and it takes some time to get used to it." He added that he was pleased with the film overall and that it made excellent use of his compositions.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2010/06/john-adams-lends-his-music-to-i-am-love-starring-tilda-swinton.html

[Mirror Image]

From the Listening thread:
Did you see the film of it?  I rented it from Netflix last year, or the year before, and wasn't really into it; oddly, being such a film freak, I felt like I would have enjoyed a lavishly-filmed stage production, with the hybrid tilting toward the stage instead of toward cinema, as was attempted by the film.  I also disliked the music, but that's just a small bump in the road; a different day, and on CD, it might click.  I'm still trying to get around to getting an audio recording of NIXON IN CHINA, which I've been delaying for ever; cannot yet decide between De Waart and Alsop.

Did you see the film I AM LOVE (Luca Guadagnino, 2009)?  I was mainly motivated to see it by some totally false grapevine that Adams had contributed original music to the film; unfortunately, the movie just cannibalized some of his hits.  That turned out to be fine, because it worked beautifully (no surprise there) and elevated the film, which was otherwise mostly-lurid, for better and worse.  (I also like melodramas, so my threshold for blarney is fairly high.)  I hope this does not become a trend...it would be terrible to have his music routinized.  http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2010/06/john-adams-lends-his-music-to-i-am-love-starring-tilda-swinton.html

I liked The Death of Klinghoffer this time around better than last time. It's quite a serious work for Adams who always seems to be 'smiling' in so many of his works. I like the music itself a lot, but I've never been into opera vocals. I tune those out as much as I can. I do like the choral sections as well and thought they were beautifully integrated into the music. Is it a work I'll frequent from now on? Absolutely not. I feel the same way about Nixon in China and The Flowering Tree. Some great music, but not a work I listen to very often. I'm still trying to get into El Nino. Think this will be a work I'll listen to on one of my days off so I can give it my full attention.

I have not seen the film I Am Love. I'll extremely picky about films I watch, so I'll check it out at some point.

[Octave]

I have not seen the film I Am Love. I'll extremely picky about films I watch, so I'll check it out at some point.

Well....caveat emptor.  I did not hate it, especially the marvelous dialogue-free reaction-shot-tennis ending sequence with Harmonielehre in full glorious bombast.  But....it's a pomo melodrama, with some really nutty-bad writing.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Time to highlight some compositions by Adams that I truly love:

Violin Concerto -

John Adams' Violin Concerto (1993) represents something of an aesthetic shift for the composer, perhaps reflecting a "post-post-modernist" world view. Continuing in a direction suggested in the early '90s [etc.]

[Taken from All Music Guide]

This is one of those pieces that I don't like as much as I think I should. Maybe it's the overly meandering quality. Might be time for a revisit.

[not edward]

This is one of those pieces that I don't like as much as I think I should. Maybe it's the overly meandering quality. Might be time for a revisit.

I have the same feeling about it. The outer movements have so much busy passagework in them, perhaps because the material just isn't that memorable.

On the other hand, I do have to say that the ending of the opening movement, where the tempo drops and ideas from the slow movement start appearing, is one of the most magical moments in Adams' work. And the slow movement itself is very fine, and IMO it's the slow movements that often let orchestral Adams down (for example in Naive and Sentimental Music).