Author Topic: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread  (Read 1258387 times)

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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7280 on: September 06, 2021, 01:09:24 PM »
Per Europadisc, Naxos is significantly raising its suggested retail price in October and this month is effectively "last call" on current Naxos prices. Europadisc is doing a big sale on Naxos recordings now so if you have anything on your wishlist, buy buy buy.

Full explanation: "Unfortunately, Naxos will be increasing their prices significantly from 29 September 2021. We will be continuing our discount sale right through to 14 November, but the discounts will have to apply to the new standard prices from 29 September onwards. We suggest taking advantage of the September prices while you can!

"(for reference, our current standard price of £7.65 for most single Naxos CDs will be increasing to £10.76 from 29 September - an increase of approximately 40%)"

Individual CDs are as low as US $3.69 for Rawsthorne and Alwyn symphonies and Bax chamber music.

I remember when the point of Naxos was that they were a budget label. Tempora mutantur.
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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7281 on: September 06, 2021, 01:17:17 PM »
I remember when the point of Naxos was that they were a budget label. Tempora mutantur.

And major labels used to be expensive.  Now the major labels are offering gigantic box sets for a nickel and Naxos is expensive!

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7282 on: September 07, 2021, 03:29:20 AM »
I remember when the point of Naxos was that they were a budget label. Tempora mutantur.
I remember buying them when they were going for £5

And major labels used to be expensive.  Now the major labels are offering gigantic box sets for a nickel and Naxos is expensive!
Topsy turvy world these days!

PD

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7283 on: September 07, 2021, 11:06:33 AM »
And major labels used to be expensive.  Now the major labels are offering gigantic box sets for a nickel and Naxos is expensive!

Good point!

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7284 on: September 07, 2021, 11:11:19 AM »
Per Europadisc, Naxos is significantly raising its suggested retail price in October and this month is effectively "last call" on current Naxos prices. Europadisc is doing a big sale on Naxos recordings now so if you have anything on your wishlist, buy buy buy.

Full explanation: "Unfortunately, Naxos will be increasing their prices significantly from 29 September 2021. We will be continuing our discount sale right through to 14 November, but the discounts will have to apply to the new standard prices from 29 September onwards. We suggest taking advantage of the September prices while you can!

"(for reference, our current standard price of £7.65 for most single Naxos CDs will be increasing to £10.76 from 29 September - an increase of approximately 40%)"

Individual CDs are as low as US $3.69 for Rawsthorne and Alwyn symphonies and Bax chamber music.

Is there a specific reason as to why Naxos will be raising their prices? Did COVID hit their market hard? Does the label now see themselves as part of the more premium labels like BIS, Harmonia Mundi, et. al.? It’s interesting that all of sudden they’re doing this, but I have noticed over the years that their prices have been going up.
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Offline MusicTurner

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7285 on: September 07, 2021, 11:29:54 AM »
I've noticed some price differences between countries. And many second hand shops will not necessarily be raising their lower Naxos prices soon.

Offline Brian

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7286 on: September 07, 2021, 11:58:34 AM »
Two thoughts about MI's question -
1. Naxos has an average artist and recording quality much, much higher than it did when new CDs from them were $6. It's not super reverberant cavernous tapes of the Czecho-Slovak State Philharmonic Orchestra doing Mendelssohn and the Nicolaus Esterhazy Sinfonia doing Beethoven anymore. (Although the Czech Chamber Philharmonic of Pardubice does remain in their active list...)

2. I know in past interviews Naxos has explained that none of their recordings make money and that the distribution business is where their profit is. They basically take profits from distributing and shipping other labels' CDs, running streaming platforms, and licensing stuff for movies and ads, and plow those profits into new recordings. So it is possible that distributing got more expensive or less profitable thanks to COVID.

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7287 on: September 07, 2021, 12:04:33 PM »
Is there a specific reason as to why Naxos will be raising their prices? Did COVID hit their market hard? Does the label now see themselves as part of the more premium labels like BIS, Harmonia Mundi, et. al.? It’s interesting that all of sudden they’re doing this, but I have noticed over the years that their prices have been going up.

Probably supply and demand (price elasticity.) I guess they have analyzed that even if they raise the price by 40%, less than 40% of their customers would stop buying their discs.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7288 on: September 07, 2021, 12:15:14 PM »
Two thoughts about MI's question -
1. Naxos has an average artist and recording quality much, much higher than it did when new CDs from them were $6. It's not super reverberant cavernous tapes of the Czecho-Slovak State Philharmonic Orchestra doing Mendelssohn and the Nicolaus Esterhazy Sinfonia doing Beethoven anymore. (Although the Czech Chamber Philharmonic of Pardubice does remain in their active list...)

2. I know in past interviews Naxos has explained that none of their recordings make money and that the distribution business is where their profit is. They basically take profits from distributing and shipping other labels' CDs, running streaming platforms, and licensing stuff for movies and ads, and plow those profits into new recordings. So it is possible that distributing got more expensive or less profitable thanks to COVID.

I’m not sure if I believe that Naxos doesn’t profit from their recordings or, to be more specific, their box sets. Their Beethoven Complete box set for example must’ve sold well for them and at Amazon US’s base price of $99 (from $129), I’m sure many of the Beethoven fans bought the set in the 2019 anniversary year. Yes, Naxos have come a long way from when their CDs were the best price around. I do remember them having one of the best classical distributions in the world, which is why so many labels flock to them to handle this end of the business. It does appear that COVID has hit them, but I think, in time, like all of the music industry affected by this pandemic, they’ll bounce back. It’s just going to take more time before it will happen.
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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7289 on: September 07, 2021, 12:27:14 PM »
I think, in time, like all of the music industry affected by this pandemic, they’ll bounce back. It’s just going to take more time before it will happen.

I so hope you're right about this. Sad what covid has done to the music business, which was already falling upon hard times with the whole streaming revolution.

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7290 on: September 07, 2021, 12:41:09 PM »
I still love the old traversals of Haydn's SQs and symphonies on Naxos even if their sound was not dynamite.

Prokofiev's 5th is heavy on the sonic issues Brian is complaining about... but that was my first recording and so I just thought the symphony was supposed to sound that way! :laugh:  I think that was Kuchar.

If you've seen the soloists and ensembles Naxos uses these days... it is clear that they are no longer producing bargain recordings.

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7291 on: September 07, 2021, 12:44:10 PM »
I so hope you're right about this. Sad what covid has done to the music business, which was already falling upon hard times with the whole streaming revolution.

You look at a professional musician and they most likely do (a) live performances, (b) recordings, and (c) teaching.  None of which is easily done in a pandemic.  I donated to my local orchestra last year since they were hit so hard.

Offline Brian

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7292 on: September 07, 2021, 03:09:42 PM »
Kuchar is reliably great, I really wish he had gotten to do that cycle with like the Chicago Symphony. I just listened to his Dvorak Symphonic Variations, totally thrilling.

MI - I imagine the Beethoven complete box did make money but the point isn't that no CD ever made money, it's that say 99 of 100 don't.

I've heard from record industry people in the past that you can have a chart topping classical album on like a Gramophone list with sales in the low hundreds.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7293 on: September 07, 2021, 03:17:21 PM »
I so hope you're right about this. Sad what covid has done to the music business, which was already falling upon hard times with the whole streaming revolution.

Yeah, it does seem that streaming is hurting labels more than anything, but I’m optimistic that those little round plastic things will be making a comeback. LPs have seen a rise in popularity over the past decade, so anything can happen.

[Side note: I’m not the biggest fan of listening to classical music on LP for all the variables that you have to deal with just to get a good sound. I also don’t subscribe to audiophile mania, which is nothing more than an excuse not to talk about the music and more of an excuse to flaunt what expensive equipment they own. My own setup is nothing special, but I’m more than pleased with the fidelity I’m getting, because there isn’t such a thing as a holy grail of audio.]
« Last Edit: September 07, 2021, 03:19:42 PM by Mirror Image »
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Offline Artem

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7294 on: September 07, 2021, 09:50:00 PM »
I've heard from record industry people in the past that you can have a chart topping classical album on like a Gramophone list with sales in the low hundreds.

At some point back in time the cost of a rock/pop music cd went from 19.99 to like 12 dollars or something. I wonder if classical music labels were to lower prices on their CDs, would they sell more?

There're labels like Wergo and Neos that release a ton of music per year, and it is very specific modern classical music, that probably has far smaller audience than Hyperion, for example. Yet their prices are always almost 20 euro per disk. How do they survive? Is it cultural subsidies from the government, donations from companies?

Online Jo498

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7295 on: September 07, 2021, 11:27:27 PM »
At some point back in time the cost of a rock/pop music cd went from 19.99 to like 12 dollars or something. I wonder if classical music labels were to lower prices on their CDs, would they sell more?
I doubt this. Classical music had pretty soon established a three tier pricing system with budget and usually midprice considerably lower than the typical popular music. Sure, popular music also used "nice price" stickers sometimes but overall in the late 1980s and 1990s one could get a great basic classical collection much cheaper than pop/rock or jazz (which was again a special case with some dirt cheap semi-pirate historical recordings and others remaining expensive).
I bought only a few Naxos disc back in the 1990s because they were actually more expensive (in Germany) than the budget series from the majors (like Sony "Essential classics").
This changed a bit with boxes now being dirt cheap per disc but not such a range of single budget discs. There is now a used market with dirt cheap offers, though.

Quote
There're labels like Wergo and Neos that release a ton of music per year, and it is very specific modern classical music, that probably has far smaller audience than Hyperion, for example. Yet their prices are always almost 20 euro per disk. How do they survive? Is it cultural subsidies from the government, donations from companies?
Probably a combination of them. One will sometimes find sponsors or radio stations mentioned on backcovers.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
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Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7296 on: September 08, 2021, 12:06:07 AM »
Is there a specific reason as to why Naxos will be raising their prices? Did COVID hit their market hard? Does the label now see themselves as part of the more premium labels like BIS, Harmonia Mundi, et. al.? It’s interesting that all of sudden they’re doing this, but I have noticed over the years that their prices have been going up.
Couldn't part of it also be due to the rise in shipping prices?  There are less truck drivers, apparently, there's also a shortage of shipping containers (see here):  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/22/shipping-container-shortage-is-causing-shipping-costs-to-rise.html  Also, air freight companies often use the belly of passenger planes (and there hasn't been much demand for flights there).  Some materials have also been hard to get ahold of.  I suspect also that due to covid protocols on the manufacturing end in terms of number of workers in a plant, etc. that this has also contributed to a slowdown in manufacturing CDs which can lead to higher prices.

Just some thoughts.

PD

EDIT:  I also just ran across this article whilst catching up on the news this morning.  It's from today:  https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/08/business/shipping-containers/index.html  It gives you an idea about how the pandemic has effected the costs of doing business.    "How the pandemic turned humble shipping containers into the hottest items on the planet"
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 12:48:45 AM by Pohjolas Daughter »

Offline Irons

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7297 on: September 08, 2021, 02:36:31 AM »
Yeah, it does seem that streaming is hurting labels more than anything, but I’m optimistic that those little round plastic things will be making a comeback. LPs have seen a rise in popularity over the past decade, so anything can happen.

[Side note: I’m not the biggest fan of listening to classical music on LP for all the variables that you have to deal with just to get a good sound. I also don’t subscribe to audiophile mania, which is nothing more than an excuse not to talk about the music and more of an excuse to flaunt what expensive equipment they own. My own setup is nothing special, but I’m more than pleased with the fidelity I’m getting, because there isn’t such a thing as a holy grail of audio.]

I have a theory on this. Music people, especially musically trained, sound is unimportant and what they hear it on is of little or no consequence. In fact reproduced music comes a very poor second to a live concert. Non-musical, such as myself, quality of sound is of major importance and thus prepared to spend serious money for quality sound reproduction which hopefully will eventually lead to a better subjective understanding of - music.
It is not one size fits all, you are fortunate in being able to sling on a pair of headphones and listen through a laptop. Doesn't work for me, in those conditions my enthusiasm would wane and another interest would take up my free time. I have no interest what so ever to flaunt my (moderately) expensive equipment. 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2021, 02:38:18 AM by Irons »
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Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7298 on: September 08, 2021, 02:53:45 AM »
I have a theory on this. Music people, especially musically trained, sound is unimportant and what they hear it on is of little or no consequence. In fact reproduced music comes a very poor second to a live concert. Non-musical, such as myself, quality of sound is of major importance and thus prepared to spend serious money for quality sound reproduction which hopefully will eventually lead to a better subjective understanding of - music.
It is not one size fits all, you are fortunate in being able to sling on a pair of headphones and listen through a laptop. Doesn't work for me, in those conditions my enthusiasm would wane and another interest would take up my free time. I have no interest what so ever to flaunt my (moderately) expensive equipment.
Ah, but you're a smart man/listener for finding something that sounds good to your ears without spending "stupid money" on it and saving your money for other things....like LPs, CDs--whatever!  ;) :)  It's very easy to get caught up in the eternal search for the perfect sounding system (I know a few guys who are constantly reading about the latest equipment.  One of them has managed to turn his quest for musical Nirvana into a nice sideline apparently.  He'll buy used good audio equipment at lower than market prices, fix it up if need be, perhaps use it for a while, and then sell it at a profit).

PD

Offline Traverso

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Re: The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread
« Reply #7299 on: September 08, 2021, 03:05:32 AM »
Yeah, it does seem that streaming is hurting labels more than anything, but I’m optimistic that those little round plastic things will be making a comeback. LPs have seen a rise in popularity over the past decade, so anything can happen.

[Side note: I’m not the biggest fan of listening to classical music on LP for all the variables that you have to deal with just to get a good sound. I also don’t subscribe to audiophile mania, which is nothing more than an excuse not to talk about the music and more of an excuse to flaunt what expensive equipment they own. My own setup is nothing special, but I’m more than pleased with the fidelity I’m getting, because there isn’t such a thing as a holy grail of audio.

Enjoying music is more dependent on a person's sensitivity than the cost of the equipment used.  :)