The Super-Duper Cheap Bargains Thread

[listener]

2 ten-disc sets from Sony next month of chamber music,   EUR 17.99 each (less if exported)at amazon.de
[asin]B00896P6F6[/asin]set 2 :CD 1 | Schubert: String Quintet in C major, D. 956 (Juilliard String Quartet, Bernard Greenhouse)
CD 2 | Verdi: String Quartet | Sibelius: String Quartet "Voces intimae" (Juilliard String Quartet)
CD 3 | Mozart: Divertimentos K. 136-138, 12 German Dances (Ensemble Wien)
CD 4 | Strauss, Britten: Sonatas for Cello & Piano (Yo-Yo Ma, Emanuel Ax)
CD 5 | Schubert: Piano Quintet "Trout" | Mozart: Clarinet Quintet "Stadler" (Rudolf Serkin, Jaime Laredo, Harold Wright, Leslie Parnas u.a.)
CD 6 | Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 15 | Gubaidulina: Rejoice! (Gidon Kremer, Yo-Yo Ma, Kim Kashkashian, Daniel Phillips)
CD 7 | Mendelssohn Bartholdy: Piano Music for Four Hands (Tal & Groethuysen)
CD 8 | Haydn: London Trios Nos. 1-4, Divertimentos Nos. 2 & 6 (Jean-Pierre Rampal, Isaac Stern, Mstislav Rostropovich)
CD 9 | Webern, Gielen: String Quartets (Artis Quartett)
CD 10 | Prokofiev, Rachmaninov: Sonatas for Cello & Piano (Yo-Yo Ma, Emanuel Ax)
set 1: CD 1 | Carter: String Quartets Nos. 1 & 2 (Juilliard String Quartet)
CD 2 | Carter: String Quartets Nos. 3 & 4, Duo for Violin & Piano (Juilliard String Quartet, Christopher Oldfather)
CD 3 | Schumann: Sonatas and Romances for Clarinet & Piano (Charles Neidich, Leonard Hokanson)
CD 4 | Brahms: Piano Quartets, Op. 25 & Op. 60 (Emanuel Ax, Isaac Stern, Jaime Laredo, Yo-Yo Ma)
CD 5 | Brahms: Piano Quartet, Op. 26 (Emanuel Ax, Isaac Stern, Jaime Laredo, Yo-Yo Ma)
CD 6 | Mozart: Divertimento K. 334, Quintet K. 577, Adagio & Rondo K. 617 (Jean-Pierre Rampal, Pierre Pierlot, Trio Pasquier u.a.)
CD 7 | Mozart: Haydn Quartets K. 387 & K. 421 (417b) (Artis Quartett)
CD 8 | Mozart: Haydn Quartets K. 428 (421b) & K. 458 ("The Hunt") (Artis Quartett)
CD 9 | Mozart: Haydn Quartets K. 464 & K. 465 ("Dissonance") (Artis Quartett)
CD 10 | Nielsen, Taffanel: Wind Quintets (Ensemble Wien-Berlin)

[bigshot]

Still downloading. Noting some of what I hear as I bounce through what I've downloaded so far...

Schubert: Rosamunde Slovak Philharmonic Orch/Warchal - Spirited performance, great sound

Schubert: Winterreise Matti Tavela/Ralf Gothoni - Not the best Tavela I've heard, but very touching and well recorded

Chopin: Fantasie Impromptu in C Sharp Major Freddy Kempf - Holy cow! No lack of technique here! It's not Rubinstein, but it's darn go

Beethoven: Symphony No 6 Pastoral - Tbilisi Symphony Orchestra/Kakhidze - I didn't have much hope for this but it was quite respectable. Fine sound.

Schubert: Symphony No 8 Unfinished - RTV Slovenia Symphony Orchestra/Nanut - Excellent performance! Sound is reasonably good.

[The new erato]

20 Euros (less VAT if you're outside EU) at amazon.es:

[asin]B006O51CSY[/asin]

http://www.amazon.es/La-Obra-Orquestal-Orq-Lyon-Markl/dp/B006O51CSY/ref=lh_ni_t

9 discs and tons of rarities and orchestrations.

2 are listed as in stock, but I just bought one of them. 

[Karl Henning]

Beethoven: Symphony No 6 Pastoral - Tbilisi Symphony Orchestra/Kakhidze - I didn't have much hope for this but it was quite respectable. Fine sound.

They're your ears, and you are at liberty to use them as you please . . . but with all the outstanding Beethoven available, personally I haven't the time for the merely quite respectable.

[Opus106]

Gustav Leonhardt Edition Warner Classics - 36 Euros at Amazon ES

Now, it's the turn of Amazon UK.

About 29 Pounds, without VAT

Not quite at the same price-point, but considering that you have to pay postage on a per-item basis (or not at all, if you can have it shipped for free), it's a better deal methinks.

[bigshot]

They're your ears, and you are at liberty to use them as you please . . . but with all the outstanding Beethoven available, personally I haven't the time for the merely quite respectable.

You totally miss the point of these sets. It isn't to get the "best" version available. It's to get a large chunk of music to sample that you aren't as familiar with. I started out sampling things I was familiar with to get a feeling for performance quality. So far, I've only found one piece, Schubert's Octet, that isn't worth the time to listen to. Everything else has been very good. Several have been truly outstanding. I suppose it's like Naxos. You aren't getting the internationally famous names, but that doesn't mean it isn't good.

If you already have all of this music and aren't interested in hearing different performers and recordings of it, this set isn't for you. But if you think these aren't worth listening to, you're sorely mistaken.

[The new erato]

So far, I've only found one piece, Schubert's Octet, that isn't worth the time to listen to.

??

Glorious music so I sincerely hope its the performance/recording?

[Karl Henning]

You totally miss the point of these sets. It isn't to get the "best" version available. It's to get a large chunk of music to sample that you aren't as familiar with. I started out sampling things I was familiar with to get a feeling for performance quality. So far, I've only found one piece, Schubert's Octet, that isn't worth the time to listen to. Everything else has been very good. Several have been truly outstanding. I suppose it's like Naxos. You aren't getting the internationally famous names, but that doesn't mean it isn't good.

If you already have all of this music and aren't interested in hearing different performers and recordings of it, this set isn't for you. But if you think these aren't worth listening to, you're sorely mistaken.

No, I don't miss the point of the sets at all, which is to bundle a passel of mediocre-to-passable performances which ordinarily would not sell, at so low a price point that they will.

I think you are missing my points, which I repeat:

1. Some of the recordings there included, which I already know, are Dull with a capital D.
1a. We've since learnt that provenance is an issue with some of the recordings being recycled in these budget sets.
2. I do already have much of the lit represented in the budget sets, so of course I have no interest in spending even a pittance on a bundle of recordings, most of which I should not consider worth the time to listen to.
3. In principle, sure, I like to listen to alternative recordings/performances of music I already know.  But quite respectable is a disappointingly low threshold for, if not the majority, a large minority of the readership here at GMG.
4. All told, the primary driver for these sets is, it only costs $2. But selling a burger for $1 doesn't make it more nutritious, doesn't make it anything more than a burger.

??

Glorious music so I sincerely hope its the performance/recording?

Well, in that cheap set, maybe it's so dishwatery a performance, that he can be forgiven for thinking that the fault lies in the piece itself ; )

[Sammy]

Sets like this serve some very good purposes... They offer an easy entry into classical music for newbies; they allow seasoned collectors to explore composers, works and performers they might not otherwise be aware of with at no risk;

I disagree about the value of those sets to seasoned collectors.  With little exception, the veteran collector already knows all this music and possesses multiple versions of superb quality.  So these sets would just be a waste of time and space.

What I don't understand is why you are so hot-to-trot about the referenced sets.  Perhaps they have value for newbies, but that's about it.

[bigshot]

?? Glorious music so I sincerely hope its the performance/recording?

Re: Schubert's Octet

It's by the Schweitzer Octet. It sounds like an underrehearsed playthrough- professional, but they don't have the spark.

The Rosamunde is fantastic. It's the best I've heard, and the Unfinished Symphony is excellent. I don't know much about Nanut and RTV Slovenia, but they definitely deserve more attention. I have a CD by Warchal and the Slovak on Naxos I believe. The name sounds familiar.

There are a lot of orchestras in Eastern Europe that are very accomplished, but we don't hear about them much in the US. This is very interesting to get to hear what the other side of the world hears.

[Fafner]

No, I don't miss the point of the sets at all, which is to bundle a passel of mediocre-to-passable performances which ordinarily would not sell, at so low a price point that they will.

I think you are missing my points, which I repeat:

1. Some of the recordings there included, which I already know, are Dull with a capital D.
1a. We've since learnt that provenance is an issue with some of the recordings being recycled in these budget sets.
2. I do already have much of the lit represented in the budget sets, so of course I have no interest in spending even a pittance on a bundle of recordings, most of which I should not consider worth the time to listen to.
3. In principle, sure, I like to listen to alternative recordings/performances of music I already know.  But quite respectable is a disappointingly low threshold for, if not the majority, a large minority of the readership here at GMG.
4. All told, the primary driver for these sets is, it only costs $2. But selling a burger for $1 doesn't make it more nutritious, doesn't make it anything more than a burger.

Well, in that cheap set, maybe it's so dishwatery a performance, that he can be forgiven for thinking that the fault lies in the piece itself ; )

I looked at the Mozart set.  A fair fraction of it appear to be (based on labeling) BIS recordings by highly rated artists like Martin Frost, Amsterdam Sinfonietta, Tapiola Sinfonietta, etc.  But since several recordings distributed by this label have been found to be of dubious provenance, it seems quite possible that these recordings are not what they are represented to be (perhaps someone who has them would be interested to confirm them), or are being used without the permission of the original publisher. 

It seems odd to me that BIS would license this outfit to sell the contents of 10 of its full price CDs for a total of $2.  That makes me uncomfortable.   

[Papy Oli]

The Belder/Scarlatti set is at €36 on Amazon Spain here

[bigshot]

It seems odd to me that BIS would license this outfit to sell the contents of 10 of its full price CDs for a total of $2.  That makes me uncomfortable.

Could BIS have licensed the recordings from some other publisher with an exclusive only for CD sales? It seems to me that if it wasn't properly licensed, one phone call to Amazon would get it pulled.

[Fafner]

Could BIS have licensed the recordings from some other publisher with an exclusive only for CD sales? It seems to me that if it wasn't properly licensed, one phone call to Amazon would get it pulled.

As far as I am aware, BIS uses its own production team for all recordings.  I have a lot of BIS recordings and do not know of any instance where they distributed recordings that they did not make in-house.  Some of the recordings included in the set are high profile enough that BIS released them on SACD. 

Labels like BIS can be small operations, and I doubt they have people scouring the internet looking for bootleg copies of their recordings.  In any case, I just sent an e-mail to the address BIS displays on their web site with link to the Amazon offer, asking if these are legitimately licensed.  Maybe they are.  That would be bad, because it would indicate a disturbing level of desperation at BIS.

[bigshot]

Send them a donation!

I bet you get upset every time you see a Brilliant Classics box set too!

[Fafner]

Send them a donation!

I bet you get upset every time you see a Brilliant Classics box set too!

I have no problem with Brilliant Classics since they sell recordings they have produced themselves, or recordings they have legitimately licensed from other companies.

[bigshot]

How do you know that? How do you know that these MP3s aren't licensed?

I'm betting that there is a publishing company in Czechoslovakia or Russia or somewhere that is sitting on tons of recordings by regional orchestras produced before the fall of the Berlin wall. They probably didn't pay much for the recordings so they're willing to license them to just about anyone with a dollar in their hand. Since they aren't EMI or DGG, they don't catalog their stuff well and occasionally ship off masters with misspelled and incorrect names. None of this is illegal or immoral. And just because we in the West don't recognize the names, it doesn't mean that the music is inferior. For every Melodiya and Supraphon that exported to the West, there are probably a dozen labels that didn't.

[Fafner]

How do you know that? How do you know that these MP3s aren't licensed?

I'm betting that there is a publishing company in Czechoslovakia or Russia or somewhere that is sitting on tons of recordings by regional orchestras produced before the fall of the Berlin wall. They probably didn't pay much for the recordings so they're willing to license them to just about anyone with a dollar in their hand. Since they aren't EMI or DGG, they don't catalog their stuff well and occasionally ship off masters with misspelled and incorrect names. None of this is illegal or immoral. And just because we in the West don't recognize the names, it doesn't mean that the music is inferior. For every Melodiya and Supraphon that exported to the West, there are probably a dozen labels that didn't.

I did not say I knew for a fact that the MP3's were not licensed.  But what you wrote above is simply nonsense.  I am not referring to recordings from sketchy labels from former communist states.  The recordings I mentioned are from an audiophile Swedish record label made with presigious ensembles.

Looking at the Mozart release

http://www.amazon.com/Mozart-Supreme-Classical-Masterpieces-Masters/dp/B005VZR2I2/

The serenade matches this release
B000KI8OQE - 

The piano sonatas match this release
[asin]B0000016P2[/asin]

The Gran Partita matches this release
[asin]B00005TNB4[/asin]

The Clarinet Concerto and quintet matches this release
[asin]B0000CEOLQ[/asin]

Piano Concertos match this
[asin]B000027F0G[/asin]

Those are the ones I recognized just looking down the list by eye.   Others in the set seem to be recordings by obscure ensembles, and it could be that they were plucked from the back catalogs of bankrupt record labels.  But it seems implausible that BIS would licence these recordings to be sold for 2 cents per track.

[jut1972]

Surely it is Amazons decision on how much to sell them for, they buy a licence to sell not a licence to maintain a labels preferred pricing structure?

The UK amazon site is charging full wack well relatively 6.49 for 100 tracks

[bigshot]

Even RCA, EMI and DGG are selling the jewels in their crown for a dollar a CD or less in big collections. The market for Western European classical recordings may not be any better than that of Eastern European ones. And just because it's a Swedish performer and not a Ukranian or Czech one, it doesn't mean that the ensembles aren't prestigious in their own land.

Also, when a label goes bankrupt, the rights to their catalog might be sold off for pennies on the dollar to someone intending to sell $9 MP3 megaboxes. There is nothing dishonest or sketchy about that.

These sets are top sellers in the classical department of the largest music retailer in the world. It's not like buying a wrist watch from a guy in a trenchcoat. The classical music market isn't what it was in the 80s. What might have been true then isn't necessarily true now. It's a buyers' market, and it's silly to base assumptions about quality on the price.