Chopin

Started by Peregrine, November 25, 2007, 05:58:44 AM

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Florestan

Quote from: Luke on March 29, 2023, 02:12:29 AMThis (quite creepy!) photo is of Calder House, where Chopin was based during his Scottish tour in late 1848. If he wrote anything at all in Scotland is likely he would have done so there. I took the photo last month at the beginning of my own tour north of the border.

I imagine he must have felt even worse in Scotland than in Mallorca.  ;D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on March 29, 2023, 01:04:19 AMI don't think it's such a big deal, though. From the little information that's available, it can be inferred that those works, if they indeed exist at all, were occasional pieces which Chopin himself did not intend for publication.

This is true of a lot of pieces you already have recordings of. They appeared in dribs and drabs over the course of about a century. Waltzes, mazurkas and other occasional pieces that he wrote in friends' notebooks.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on March 29, 2023, 02:23:39 AMThis is true of a lot of pieces you already have recordings of. They appeared in dribs and drabs over the course of about a century. Waltzes, mazurkas and other occasional pieces that he wrote in friends' notebooks.

Yes, true, but charming as such occasional pieces are, Chopin's reputation does not rely on them. It's the opus numbered works that really count.

Don't get me wrong, it would be very nice to listen to the only work he might have written in Scotland --- very nice but also inessential.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on March 29, 2023, 02:31:20 AMYes, true, but charming as such occasional pieces are, Chopin's reputation does not rely on them. It's the opus numbered works that really count.

Don't get me wrong, it would be very nice to listen to the only work he might have written in Scotland --- very nice but also inessential.

To be honest my issue is less that I want to hear it, and more that I think it's incredibly selfish to not allow access to the material. Even if this sort of piece is not of great interest to listeners, it would be of great interest to musicologists.

Meanwhile... according to the recent Stephen Hough album of Nocturnes, we actually have recently cut one nocturne and one waltz from the list. Mostly written by one of Chopin's students as composition exercises.

There are already several little things that the Chopin National Edition points out Chopin didn't actually write (eg he did an arrangement of an existing folksong), plus a couple they were prepared to include that have since been proven to be composed by others. The opus numbers are generally secure it seems (even the numbers from 66 onward that were published after Chopin's death).
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on March 29, 2023, 02:41:05 AMI think it's incredibly selfish to not allow access to the material. Even if this sort of piece is not of great interest to listeners, it would be of great interest to musicologists.

Agreed on both counts.


Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Luke

Quote from: Florestan on March 29, 2023, 02:31:20 AMDon't get me wrong, it would be very nice to listen to the only work he might have written in Scotland --- very nice but also inessential.

You are probably right, of course, if it exists it's probably inconsequential. But you can't know for sure without hearing it? He was in a lot of pain, existential and otherwise, at the time; he was less than a year from death, after all. He was suffering from composer's block as well, which contributed to his misery. (He actually quite like Calder House, though, which was a lot more comfortable than Valdemossa!) Personally I'd be very interested to hear anything that managed to get through that.

Florestan

Quote from: Luke on March 29, 2023, 02:51:45 AMYou are probably right, of course, if it exists it's probably inconsequential. But you can't know for sure without hearing it? He was in a lot of pain, existential and otherwise, at the time; he was less than a year from death, after all. He was suffering from composer's block as well, which contributed to his misery. (He actually quite like Calder House, though, which was a lot more comfortable than Valdemossa!) Personally I'd be very interested to hear anything that managed to get through that.

It would be interesting to hear it, for sure.

(It should be noted, though, that at Valdemossa he wrote Op. 28, while in Scotland he wrote only one piece, if he ever wrote it.  :D )
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Luke

No argument on that. It's just that the end of Chopin's life is a sad mystery. The music seemed to die in him. I'd like to see if there were any embers still burning.

Florestan

Quote from: Luke on March 29, 2023, 03:11:54 AMNo argument on that. It's just that the end of Chopin's life is a sad mystery. The music seemed to die in him. I'd like to see if there were any embers still burning.

Maybe one day. One can only hope.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Madiel

Quote from: Florestan on March 29, 2023, 03:03:38 AMIt would be interesting to hear it, for sure.

(It should be noted, though, that at Valdemossa he wrote Op. 28, while in Scotland he wrote only one piece, if he ever wrote it.  :D )

And now of course I need to listen to op.28.

This is the problem with Chopin. There are too many works that I think are total masterpieces and then I want to hop from one to the next.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Mandryka

Quote from: Florestan on March 29, 2023, 02:22:23 AMI imagine he must have felt even worse in Scotland than in Mallorca.  ;D

If it rained in Spain it probably poured down in Scotland. Not the raindrops, the cats and dogs prelude.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Luke

He was there for a few months, there was some sunshine amongst the showers!

Brian

I feel like there's a popular solo Chopin recital CD with a transcription for solo piano of the Concerto No. 2's "larghetto" movement. But I can't remember which CD it is. Google has become frustratingly hard to use and has only informed me of Earl Wild's arrangement; has anybody else done it? I swear I own a CD somewhere...

George

Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2023, 11:28:37 AMI feel like there's a popular solo Chopin recital CD with a transcription for solo piano of the Concerto No. 2's "larghetto" movement. But I can't remember which CD it is. Google has become frustratingly hard to use and has only informed me of Earl Wild's arrangement; has anybody else done it? I swear I own a CD somewhere...

What is the Opus number?
"I can't live without music, because music is life." - Yvonne Lefébure

Brian

Quote from: George on August 05, 2023, 11:34:50 AMWhat is the Opus number?
It would be an arrangement by someone else. Larghetto from Op. 21, but arranged by a later pianist.

Atriod

#455
Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2023, 11:28:37 AMI feel like there's a popular solo Chopin recital CD with a transcription for solo piano of the Concerto No. 2's "larghetto" movement. But I can't remember which CD it is. Google has become frustratingly hard to use and has only informed me of Earl Wild's arrangement; has anybody else done it? I swear I own a CD somewhere...

I found a few pianists playing it on Youtube, none of them made recordings on CD. The only CD I could find is the Earl Wild transcription played by Giovanni Doria Miglietta.



ChatGPT also gave me a pretty amusing answer  ;D

Brian

I think I was looking for the wrong concerto! There is a Balakirev arrangement of the "Romanza" larghetto from the other Chopin concerto. It's been recorded live by Marc-Andre Hamelin and James Rhodes.

Florestan

Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2023, 02:58:19 PMI think I was looking for the wrong concerto! There is a Balakirev arrangement of the "Romanza" larghetto from the other Chopin concerto. It's been recorded live by Marc-Andre Hamelin and James Rhodes.

It's also in the Nicholas Walker and Alexander Paley respective sets of Balakirev's complete piano music.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Atriod

Quote from: Brian on August 05, 2023, 02:58:19 PMI think I was looking for the wrong concerto! There is a Balakirev arrangement of the "Romanza" larghetto from the other Chopin concerto. It's been recorded live by Marc-Andre Hamelin and James Rhodes.

Which CD(s) do you have/were thinking of? I listened to the Hamelin Wigmore Hall recital which I haven't played in ages. It was a very nice selection of music, including the Romanza transcription from Chopin's first piano concerto.

Brian

Quote from: Zauberschloss on August 06, 2023, 11:57:00 AMWhich CD(s) do you have/were thinking of? I listened to the Hamelin Wigmore Hall recital which I haven't played in ages. It was a very nice selection of music, including the Romanza transcription from Chopin's first piano concerto.
It must have been the Rhodes, which I own, though I still can't shake the feeling that there may be another arrangement out there on disc somewhere.