Author Topic: Mozart  (Read 148565 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline ritter

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 6520
  • Raoul Dufy, "Tragédie, Comédie"
  • Location: "La Villa y Corte"
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1240 on: May 28, 2020, 04:23:10 AM »
Why does Haydn have 10x as many pages of discussion as Mozart here on GMG...?
Well, Havergal Brian has 6x as many pages as Mozart, so there you go.... ::) :D
ritter
-------------------------------------------------------------
„ Kein’ Musik ist ja nicht auf Erden, die unsrer verglichen kann werden“.

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55681
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1241 on: May 28, 2020, 04:27:05 AM »
He lived longer.

Also: Gurn.

Also, I know I have more yet to learn about Haydn than about Mozart
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • *
  • Posts: 55681
  • Et quid amabo nisi quod ænigma est?
    • Henningmusick
  • Location: Boston, Mass.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Shostakovich, D. Scarlattii, Stravinsky, JS Bach, Liszt, Martinů, Haydn, Henning
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1242 on: May 28, 2020, 04:29:00 AM »
Been really enjoying Mozart's string quintets lately; I have the Amadeus Quartet recording w/ Cecil Aronowitz on the second viola. Such a great recording. The Amadeus Quartet has a very distinct sound that works really well with this music. For some reason, it seems that the quintets blow his string quartets out of the water, but I think I need to spend more time with the quartets.

Also been listening to a great CD with Mitsuko Shirai singing 21 of Mozart's Lieder, w/ pianist Hartmut Höll. I never knew that Mozart wrote many Lieder, and discovering this music has deepened my appreciation of the composer.

There's still a lot of Mozart that I have yet to explore at all: the earlier piano concertos, the violin concertos, many of the symphonies (I'm mostly only familiar with the last 5), Figaro, Cosi fan tutte, etc. I am not always in such a receptive phase with his music, but I feel one coming on.

The quintets are great. The Amadeus + Aronowitz was my first acq. with them
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4880
  • Location: Germany
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1243 on: May 28, 2020, 10:38:20 AM »
Been really enjoying Mozart's string quintets lately; I have the Amadeus Quartet recording w/ Cecil Aronowitz on the second viola. Such a great recording. The Amadeus Quartet has a very distinct sound that works really well with this music. For some reason, it seems that the quintets blow his string quartets out of the water, but I think I need to spend more time with the quartets.
The quintets are on a larger scale and are great works, especially the last 4. The first one is amazing relative to its time of composition (and I think quite superior to the early string quartets), I think it is a candidate for Mozart's best piece up to then and it should be better known. In the case of the c minor I tend to prefer the original wind serenade version. The last 4 and the clarinet quintet are among Mozart's greatest works although I don't think that the 10 "late" string quartets are so far behind. It seems more a question of scale than of quality. Another great unique piece is the string trio "divertimento" K 563.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Ratliff

  • Guest
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1244 on: May 28, 2020, 01:02:45 PM »
Been really enjoying Mozart's string quintets lately; I have the Amadeus Quartet recording w/ Cecil Aronowitz on the second viola. Such a great recording. The Amadeus Quartet has a very distinct sound that works really well with this music. For some reason, it seems that the quintets blow his string quartets out of the water, but I think I need to spend more time with the quartets.

I think the last three quartets and the string quintets are among Mozart's very finest works. I don't find the famous "Haydn Quartets" of Mozart to be among my favorite works.

I've never enjoyed the Amadeus Quartet in Mozart (or anything else, really). You might want to seek out the Grumiaux Trio + 2 in the Quintets, and in the String Trio.

Offline Herman

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2158
  • there's something wrong with my brain
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1245 on: June 04, 2020, 07:14:00 AM »
I see some stuff has disappeared during this week's meltdown.
I remember saying that the Grumiaux recording of the quintets is a total classic, and the Trio K563 bonus (forty minutes of stunning music) is great.
There aren't that many great recordings of the E flat major string trio.
On the other hand there is a very nice youtube, with Veronika Eberle, Amihai Grosz on his magic Caspar di Salo and Sol Gabetta.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8c83bpOVXo&t=399s

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 19724
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1246 on: June 04, 2020, 07:22:05 AM »
If you can stand the sound (perfectly acceptable mono), this is a great performance.

"Visând, întrezărim prin doruri –
latente-n pulberi aurii –
păduri ce ar putea să fie
și niciodată nu vor fi."

--- Lucian Blaga

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4880
  • Location: Germany
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1247 on: June 05, 2020, 12:09:14 AM »
There are lots of recordings of the divertimento K 563. Another historical one is Heifetz/Primrose/Feuermann although this may be too "lean and mean" for some listeners. On the opposite end (indulgent and expressive) is Kremer et al. (Sony) and there are also brilliant more recent ones (TrioZimmermann on BIS, Schmid/Tamestit/Vogler (Sony) and quite a few in between.
I'd agree that the Trio is more subtle and not such a demonstrative tour de force as most of the Haydn quartets and quintets. But I find K 515, 516 and 593 at least as ambitious as the quartets dedicated to Haydn.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1706
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1248 on: June 12, 2020, 03:52:03 PM »
Wow, the C minor Mass is really blowing me away right now. What an excellent work. Very elegant, perfectly structured, despite its incompleteness. The Gloria is like a symphony in itself. I love the counterbalancing of sections for chorus and for soloists. It really gives a feeling of wholeness to it. I don't know just how appropriately liturgical this music is, but it's certainly a masterpiece as a work of music. Probably a top 5 Mozart work for me.

Having gotten all that out of the way... what are some other good choral/orchestral works by Mozart? There is obviously the Requiem, which I have not heard in some time and to which I owe a listen, soon, for sure. What else is worth checking out? I'm hungry for more.

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4880
  • Location: Germany
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1249 on: June 12, 2020, 10:40:03 PM »
That's about it as far as large scale "late" choral music is concerned. There is one single grand Kyrie d minor K 341 (that used to be called "Munich" and dated to ca. 1781 but this was apparently wrong and it is late Viennese piece, probably connected with Mozart's expectation to get a position at the Stephansdom) and smaller pieces like "Ave verum corpus". But the bulk of the church music is fairly early and from Salzburg. It was also mostly confined by particular local restrictions so that most full masses only last about 25 min. There is one exception, the "Waisenhausmesse" (orphanage mass) K 139 that is very long and also in c minor. The most famous Salzburg pieces are probably the "coronation mass" K 317, another  one K 337 and the Vesperae solennes K 339.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2020, 12:45:03 AM by Jo498 »
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline 71 dB

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 8122
  • politically incorrect = pi = 3.141592654...
    • Soundcloud
  • Location: Helsinki, Finland
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1250 on: June 13, 2020, 04:35:50 AM »
Wow, the C minor Mass is really blowing me away right now. What an excellent work. Very elegant, perfectly structured, despite its incompleteness. The Gloria is like a symphony in itself. I love the counterbalancing of sections for chorus and for soloists. It really gives a feeling of wholeness to it. I don't know just how appropriately liturgical this music is, but it's certainly a masterpiece as a work of music. Probably a top 5 Mozart work for me.

Yes! C minor Mass of one of my favorite works by Mozart.  :)
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Ecclesiastical Secularism"

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 17473
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1251 on: June 13, 2020, 07:16:55 AM »
Wow, the C minor Mass is really blowing me away right now. What an excellent work. Very elegant, perfectly structured, despite its incompleteness. The Gloria is like a symphony in itself. I love the counterbalancing of sections for chorus and for soloists. It really gives a feeling of wholeness to it. I don't know just how appropriately liturgical this music is, but it's certainly a masterpiece as a work of music. Probably a top 5 Mozart work for me.

Having gotten all that out of the way... what are some other good choral/orchestral works by Mozart? There is obviously the Requiem, which I have not heard in some time and to which I owe a listen, soon, for sure. What else is worth checking out? I'm hungry for more.

You've discovered the pinnacles of his choral output, but as described above the remainder has plenty to offer.

A suggestion:


Q

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1706
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1252 on: June 13, 2020, 02:37:10 PM »
You've discovered the pinnacles of his choral output, but as described above the remainder has plenty to offer.

A suggestion:


Q

Thanks! I'll check it out. Never heard of the conductor, Peter Neumann.

I'm not one to rule out Mozart's early music; I know there are plenty of gems there, and that that's where the majority of his choral music dates from.

Anyway, I ordered Hogwood doing the Coronation Mass & the Vesperae Solennes. I expect it ought to be pretty good, though I haven't heard all of it yet.

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1706
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1253 on: June 13, 2020, 02:40:33 PM »
Another query: What are some good recordings of the Sinfonie Concertante? And how many of them are there? I only really know the one for violin and viola but I understand there's at least one or two others. I don't have anything in my library. I'm on a bit of a Mozart kick and feel like I ought to strike while the iron is hot, with more music. I have far less Mozart than I have Bach, Beethoven, Schubert or Brahms in my library, despite that I rate him as no lesser a composer—I suppose it's just less often that I'm in the mood for his music.

Offline JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3869
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1254 on: June 13, 2020, 02:54:07 PM »
There's one for Concertante of winds written for Paris which may not in fact be by WAM.

For the famous one, I suggest this recording.


The whole series he made with that Orchestra is good and can be had as a box.


It includes the other Sinfonia Concertante.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Offline Jo498

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4880
  • Location: Germany
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1255 on: June 13, 2020, 10:27:51 PM »
There is the famous concertante for violn/viola K 364 recorded by most famous violinists so that there are plenty to choose from. The wind concertante K 297 is also frequently recorded and the most likely hypothesis seems that this piece is mostly Mozart but maybe not entirely, i.e. it could be an arrangement of a lost work written for slighty different combination of winds (because Mozart mentions such a work in a letter, I think). Then there is the earlier "concertone" for two violins K 190 (charming but not quite on the level of the violin/viola piece) and two fragments of double/triple concertos or concertantes that have been partially completed and recorded. violin/piano in D major K App. 56 (or K 315f) and violin, viola, 'cello in A major K App.104 (or K 320e). Additionally, there are some concertante movements in a few large scale serenades, such as a violin concerto in K 250 (Haffner) and two woodwind concertante movements in K 320 (Posthorn)

Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 19724
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1256 on: June 13, 2020, 11:47:24 PM »
A suggestion:


Q

That's very good. For a super-complete set, though, this is unbeatable:

"Visând, întrezărim prin doruri –
latente-n pulberi aurii –
păduri ce ar putea să fie
și niciodată nu vor fi."

--- Lucian Blaga

Offline Que

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 17473
  • Location: The Hague, Netherlands
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1257 on: June 13, 2020, 11:56:03 PM »
Thanks! I'll check it out. Never heard of the conductor, Peter Neumann.

Neither had I, but you'll be surprised how good these period performances are.  :)

That's very good. For a super-complete set, though, this is unbeatable:


Absolutely right, you get all the shorter pieces as well.
It's just that, though I am definitely a Harnoncourt fan, I'm not so keen on him here.

Q
« Last Edit: June 14, 2020, 02:35:13 AM by Que »

Offline Florestan

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 19724
  • Location: Bucharest, Romania
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1258 on: June 14, 2020, 01:54:11 AM »
Neither had I, but you'll be surprised how good these period performances are.  :)

Absolutely righ, you get all the shorter pieces as well.
It's just that, though I am definitely a Harnoncourt fan, I'm so keen on him here.

Q

One of my favorites is a short Kyrie in F major KV33 from 1766. It's exactly like a child praying to God, very moving and beautiful.
"Visând, întrezărim prin doruri –
latente-n pulberi aurii –
păduri ce ar putea să fie
și niciodată nu vor fi."

--- Lucian Blaga

Offline Biffo

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 1998
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: Mozart
« Reply #1259 on: June 14, 2020, 02:01:43 AM »
There is the famous concertante for violn/viola K 364 recorded by most famous violinists so that there are plenty to choose from. The wind concertante K 297 is also frequently recorded and the most likely hypothesis seems that this piece is mostly Mozart but maybe not entirely, i.e. it could be an arrangement of a lost work written for slighty different combination of winds (because Mozart mentions such a work in a letter, I think). Then there is the earlier "concertone" for two violins K 190 (charming but not quite on the level of the violin/viola piece) and two fragments of double/triple concertos or concertantes that have been partially completed and recorded. violin/piano in D major K App. 56 (or K 315f) and violin, viola, 'cello in A major K App.104 (or K 320e). Additionally, there are some concertante movements in a few large scale serenades, such as a violin concerto in K 250 (Haffner) and two woodwind concertante movements in K 320 (Posthorn)



K297b (oboe, clarinet, bassoon & horn) has been recorded in the combination mentioned by Mozart in a letter to his father (flute, clarinet, bassoon & horn) by the Freiburger Barockorchester conducted by Gottfried von der Goltz. The album, entitled Concertante also contains the Flute & Harp Concerto (K299) and Symphony No 31 in D major Paris, K297. - all three works were written for Paris during Mozart's visit there in 1778.