Author Topic: Mozart  (Read 187254 times)

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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1280 on: June 21, 2020, 11:14:11 PM »
The Uchida set is generally well thought of.

Many people like it, some people don’t. I don’t, despite being quite positive about her in 19th century music. For me, it’s a bit cold and a bit fussy.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1281 on: June 22, 2020, 01:09:38 AM »
Many people like it, some people don’t.

This is what I said.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1282 on: June 22, 2020, 10:38:45 AM »
Many people like it, some people don’t.

And some people haven't even heard it and don't have an opinion at all!  >:D

I am not going to spent my hard earned money every time a competent pianist somewhere records some stuff. I don't need Mozart, but I can have one cycle and I'm definitely NOT worrying about not having THE BEST cycle on this planet. I have a GOOD cycle and that's more than I need. Just saying. 
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Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1283 on: June 22, 2020, 11:15:01 AM »
And some people haven't even heard it and don't have an opinion at all!  >:D

I am not going to spent my hard earned money every time a competent pianist somewhere records some stuff. I don't need Mozart, but I can have one cycle and I'm definitely NOT worrying about not having THE BEST cycle on this planet. I have a GOOD cycle and that's more than I need. Just saying.

I get your opinion, but one can find recordings that illustrate just how different the 'same' Mozart works can actually sound, being it as regards the instruments, tempi, musical themes and structures, psychological atmosphere, and so on. Such contrasts, and just widening one's horizon in that respect, can be fascinating.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2020, 11:17:25 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1284 on: June 22, 2020, 10:46:17 PM »
I get your opinion, but one can find recordings that illustrate just how different the 'same' Mozart works can actually sound, being it as regards the instruments, tempi, musical themes and structures, psychological atmosphere, and so on. Such contrasts, and just widening one's horizon in that respect, can be fascinating.

Besides this very good point, one can never have too much Mozart.
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1285 on: June 22, 2020, 10:55:31 PM »
And some people haven't even heard it and don't have an opinion at all!  >:D

I am not going to spent my hard earned money every time a competent pianist somewhere records some stuff. I don't need Mozart, but I can have one cycle and I'm definitely NOT worrying about not having THE BEST cycle on this planet. I have a GOOD cycle and that's more than I need. Just saying.

This is so typical of you, Poju. You "contribute" to a discussion about performer X playing composer's Y music is by interjecting that you haven't heard X and have no need for Y.  Then, if some poster(s) might (rightfully) ask you why on earth did you feel the need to offer your "opinion" when in fact you have none, and what's your business posting on this topic when actually you have zero interest in it, you start complaining about how people are unfair to you.

And besides, you may not need Mozart but you certainly talk a lot about him.  ;)
"Music expresses that which cannot be said and on which it is impossible to be silent." - Victor Hugo

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1286 on: June 23, 2020, 06:47:51 PM »


This is very very impressive I think, one of the most successful D major sonatas (576) I’ve heard.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1287 on: June 28, 2020, 06:28:02 AM »
There's a man in Switzerland called Phillippe Borer who's really interested in how to use a bow when you play violin. Anyway he's written a monograph called Grand détaché porté contre détaché traîné which looks at a technique which was pretty popular amongst violinists in the c17 and c18 and c19 centuries. I haven't been able to get hold of the monograph, but I can say that it was all about making chords sound energetic and powerful.

To cut a long story short, Ensemble Fratres thought it was a good idea to try an experiment and use this technique of grand détaché in a couple of Mozart quintets.

The result is that the music sounds full of sforzandos.   They also use some very characterful instruments, so the ensemble sound is not uniform. The recording captures the materiality of the instruments, you have a sense of air vibrating through friction of hair and gut. In my head, it sounded like the music which Masetto and Zerlina had at their wedding. Rustic.



 




Here's Borer's wiki

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Borer
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 11:21:19 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1288 on: July 04, 2020, 11:13:10 AM »
As an amateur pianist and as someone with an unhealthy love for the "black key" of B minor, I've been playing through Mozart's Adagio recently, and I noticed an odd parallel octave between the top two voices. It seems strange, because Mozart was usually fastidious about his inner part writing.

Any thoughts?
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1289 on: July 04, 2020, 06:20:08 PM »
Any thoughts?

Geniuses can violate the "rules."
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Offline amw

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1290 on: July 04, 2020, 07:31:21 PM »
As an amateur pianist and as someone with an unhealthy love for the "black key" of B minor, I've been playing through Mozart's Adagio recently, and I noticed an odd parallel octave between the top two voices. It seems strange, because Mozart was usually fastidious about his inner part writing.

Any thoughts?
I checked NMA and there seems to be no doubt that that's what Mozart wrote. Seems like carelessness to me though—not unheard of in Mozart—and doesn't sound very good either. If I hadn't checked NMA I would have assumed it was a printing error and the middle voice on beat 3 should alternate F#-A instead of D-F#, and I still might play it that way. (Or I might just embellish the right hand in accordance with the same passage when it returns at bar 46, where Mozart avoids the parallel octave. Or just leave out the initial D in the left hand.)

Mozart comes the closest to compositional perfection of any composer in history, but you can still see the seams and joins at times. No one is perfect.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 07:33:13 PM by amw »

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1291 on: July 05, 2020, 02:11:15 AM »
As someone who is really bad at reading notes I now deducted the "problem" is this part where the parallel octaves happens marked red. I'm trying to get better at reading notes, but it's surprisingly difficult for me. Must be my asperger or something. I don't instantly see what the notes are. I need to "calculate" them (e.g. 2 lines up from G is D). I hope with practise it get's better. My brain is just so useless when it comes to music notations. When I'm told for example the order of sharps is F# C# G# D# A# E# B# I'm like "order in what context?". Recently I'm starting to understand this and how it relates to the circle of fifths and the order of notes getting sharpened or flattened. Only a few days ago I realised* the sharps and flats are always marked in this order to mark the key. Always looked so random to me!  ;D I guess people are told these things clearly when they start their piano lesson at age 10, but that never happened to me. I wasn't into music before highschool and music theory was a total mystery until recently when tons of stuff suddenly came to me. As mathematically somewhat gifted guy I understand the "logic" side of music theory such as functional harmony better than the "notation" side of music. Even the "logic" side was difficult before I understood how everything in music is context-related.

* Thanks to a Youtube video by a German woman living in Finland who took a Finnish language test now that Duolingo has Finnish language. I happened to watch that video out of interest and saw her other music related videos. She had videos of how to read the key from sharps or flats. I was like "finally someone tells about these things!"

 



Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1292 on: July 05, 2020, 05:21:50 AM »
I checked NMA and there seems to be no doubt that that's what Mozart wrote. Seems like carelessness to me though—not unheard of in Mozart—and doesn't sound very good either. If I hadn't checked NMA I would have assumed it was a printing error and the middle voice on beat 3 should alternate F#-A instead of D-F#, and I still might play it that way. (Or I might just embellish the right hand in accordance with the same passage when it returns at bar 46, where Mozart avoids the parallel octave. Or just leave out the initial D in the left hand.)

Mozart comes the closest to compositional perfection of any composer in history, but you can still see the seams and joins at times. No one is perfect.

Thanks for the response. I agree, it looks and sounds like a mistake, but not even Mozart is perfect.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1293 on: July 05, 2020, 05:32:51 AM »
And some people haven't even heard it and don't have an opinion at all!  >:D

I am not going to spent my hard earned money every time a competent pianist somewhere records some stuff. I don't need Mozart, but I can have one cycle and I'm definitely NOT worrying about not having THE BEST cycle on this planet. I have a GOOD cycle and that's more than I need. Just saying. 

There is, indeed, no obligation to chase after "the best," even if it could be determined. Nothing wrong with enjoying the good set one has
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1294 on: July 05, 2020, 05:34:25 AM »
[...[ one can never have too much Mozart.

I'll go ahead and state my disagreement  >:D
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1295 on: July 05, 2020, 05:35:47 AM »
As someone who is really bad at reading notes I now deducted the "problem" is this part where the parallel octaves happens marked red. I'm trying to get better at reading notes, but it's surprisingly difficult for me. Must be my asperger or something. I don't instantly see what the notes are. I need to "calculate" them (e.g. 2 lines up from G is D). I hope with practise it get's better. My brain is just so useless when it comes to music notations. When I'm told for example the order of sharps is F# C# G# D# A# E# B# I'm like "order in what context?". Recently I'm starting to understand this and how it relates to the circle of fifths and the order of notes getting sharpened or flattened. Only a few days ago I realised* the sharps and flats are always marked in this order to mark the key. Always looked so random to me!  ;D I guess people are told these things clearly when they start their piano lesson at age 10, but that never happened to me. I wasn't into music before highschool and music theory was a total mystery until recently when tons of stuff suddenly came to me. As mathematically somewhat gifted guy I understand the "logic" side of music theory such as functional harmony better than the "notation" side of music. Even the "logic" side was difficult before I understood how everything in music is context-related.

I never did have piano lessons, but I've known pianists with a strikingly poor understanding of music theory. Ability to read and perform music isn't always directly connected to one's ability to understand its components. Thankfully, because I need that understanding to compose music, and I'm not a very good performer at either the keyboard or as a choral tenor!
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1296 on: July 05, 2020, 06:17:14 AM »
I'll go ahead and state my disagreement  >:D

Disclosure:  I just listened to the K,504
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1297 on: July 05, 2020, 09:56:35 AM »
I never did have piano lessons,

So where and when did you learn to read musical notations? Flute lessons? School? Just learned to do it at age 13 instead of playing with Legos?

but I've known pianists with a strikingly poor understanding of music theory.

How do you define "strikingly poor understanding of music theory"? I guess deep understanding of negative harmony is not the most important thing for pianists.

Ability to read and perform music isn't always directly connected to one's ability to understand its components. Thankfully, because I need that understanding to compose music, and I'm not a very good performer at either the keyboard or as a choral tenor!

As someone who makes music as hobby, I don't "need" to understanding music theory,but now that I do understand it much better than just 2 years ago boy does it help! It feels like having superpowers and I am just learning this stuff! So exciting! Now I want to get better at reading notes and then analyse works by J. S. Bach and hopefully learn to write fugues, my all time dream.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1298 on: July 05, 2020, 10:12:28 AM »
There is, indeed, no obligation to chase after "the best," even if it could be determined. Nothing wrong with enjoying the good set one has

The "good" set one have might have been the best when it was released, but years later better ones came out. Did people enjoy the set when it was the best? Surely they did! Why should it be any different just because suddenly better ones exists? As long as I haven't heard the better ones I can pretend they don't exist and just enjoy the set that one time might have been the best. Upgrading your collection to always have the best performances around is financially demanding. Of course one can upgade only the most favorite works and I could get a better set of Haydn's Op. 20 for example, but I am very happy with Kodály.

My "upgrading activity" is about upgrading DVDs to Blu-rays rather than chasing the best possible performances of classical music. That's what I do and other people can choose to do somethig else if they feel that's what they want.

Sorry, if I complain about the nature of the discussion. I think I was feeling frustrated when I posted those messages. I'll stop complaning...
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Jazzz"

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1299 on: July 05, 2020, 03:40:09 PM »
Perhaps someone can help me out here...

I purchased a few months ago the following recording of Le Nozze di Figaro:



I got it used, quite cheaply, only to find out once I received it that the booklet w/ libretto was missing. I was wondering if anyone here had a scan of the booklet for me to read while listening? It doesn't have to be perfect quality, I only request that it be legible. Any help here would be greatly appreciated!