Author Topic: Mozart  (Read 180856 times)

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Offline amw

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1300 on: July 05, 2020, 04:47:49 PM »
I do not have a scan of that particular booklet but it may be helpful to use one of the several websites that have uploaded the libretto with English translations, e.g., http://www.murashev.com/opera/Le_nozze_di_Figaro_libretto_English_Italian

Offline mc ukrneal

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1301 on: July 05, 2020, 05:50:39 PM »
I do not have a scan of that particular booklet but it may be helpful to use one of the several websites that have uploaded the libretto with English translations, e.g., http://www.murashev.com/opera/Le_nozze_di_Figaro_libretto_English_Italian
Once the libretto is located, you (vers la flamme) can then cross reference with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_nozze_di_Figaro_(Georg_Solti_recording)

It gives the names for each track (which you can figure out) as well as any changes in the libretto. I think it should be a pretty straight-forward project.   I have the recording, but not a scan of the booklet, which is several hundred pages at least (it's a big one). SO unless you get lucky, a small project like this should get you the result you need.
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Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1302 on: July 05, 2020, 08:04:28 PM »
Perhaps someone can help me out here...

I purchased a few months ago the following recording of Le Nozze di Figaro:

I got it used, quite cheaply, only to find out once I received it that the booklet w/ libretto was missing. I was wondering if anyone here had a scan of the booklet for me to read while listening? It doesn't have to be perfect quality, I only request that it be legible. Any help here would be greatly appreciated!

There should be a few online librettos, but bear in mind that there are a couple of numbers in the Marriage that often get omitted, and some performances slightly reorder the scenes towards the end.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1303 on: July 06, 2020, 01:21:28 AM »
Thanks everyone! This should be sufficient.

There should be a few online librettos, but bear in mind that there are a couple of numbers in the Marriage that often get omitted, and some performances slightly reorder the scenes towards the end.

Ah, this is why I was concerned about finding a booklet for this particular recording, but with a little bit of effort I should be able to figure it out well enough.

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1304 on: July 06, 2020, 05:31:56 AM »
So where and when did you learn to read musical notations? Flute lessons? School? Just learned to do it at age 13 instead of playing with Legos?

I played viola for a few years, and sang in the school choir from elementary through middle school. I kind of grew up around written music, so it never seemed foreign to me. I taught myself things like transposing instruments and odd clefs later on when I became interested in following along in orchestral scores while listening to music.

How do you define "strikingly poor understanding of music theory"? I guess deep understanding of negative harmony is not the most important thing for pianists.

Not really knowing how to figure out intervals, that sort of thing.

As someone who makes music as hobby, I don't "need" to understanding music theory,but now that I do understand it much better than just 2 years ago boy does it help! It feels like having superpowers and I am just learning this stuff! So exciting! Now I want to get better at reading notes and then analyse works by J. S. Bach and hopefully learn to write fugues, my all time dream.

My graduate counterpoint class worked from simple 2-part counterpoint to 3-part fugue writing, in the course of a single semester. A number of people in the class hadn't had any training or practice in counterpoint before, and everyone was able to write a fugue by the end. Unfortunately, it's not something that's easy to teach yourself (I know that well from experience), but if you want, I could show you the books we used:



Fux is the classic text, of course, in spite of the fact that no one ever really composed this way. Mozart and Haydn would have studied these exact exercises.



For Baroque counterpoint and fugue writing, we used this text. You could conceivably start with it, but I don't think it would be recommended. You should have a bit of experience first.

Back when I was teaching myself, I used Fux, and also Schoenberg, who has an idiosyncratic take on tonal counterpoint:

"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline 71 dB

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1305 on: July 06, 2020, 10:30:13 AM »
I played viola for a few years, and sang in the school choir from elementary through middle school. I kind of grew up around written music, so it never seemed foreign to me. I taught myself things like transposing instruments and odd clefs later on when I became interested in following along in orchestral scores while listening to music.

Not really knowing how to figure out intervals, that sort of thing.

My graduate counterpoint class worked from simple 2-part counterpoint to 3-part fugue writing, in the course of a single semester. A number of people in the class hadn't had any training or practice in counterpoint before, and everyone was able to write a fugue by the end. Unfortunately, it's not something that's easy to teach yourself (I know that well from experience), but if you want, I could show you the books we used:



Fux is the classic text, of course, in spite of the fact that no one ever really composed this way. Mozart and Haydn would have studied these exact exercises.



For Baroque counterpoint and fugue writing, we used this text. You could conceivably start with it, but I don't think it would be recommended. You should have a bit of experience first.

Back when I was teaching myself, I used Fux, and also Schoenberg, who has an idiosyncratic take on tonal counterpoint:



Thanks for these. Time tell what I do.
That sounds surprising.
Why is that?
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1306 on: July 07, 2020, 05:18:45 AM »
I think we've drifted pretty far off topic. I'll send you a PM.
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1307 on: November 26, 2020, 12:09:53 PM »


Tried K576. Not impressed personally.


http://heinrichvontrotta.blogspot.com/2019/04/giovanni-de-cecco-il-profeta-del.html

Interesting interview here, for example


Quote
. . .  each instrument has its own natural tactus. We think that the rhythm is decided only by the interpreter, but in reality it is determined by the interpreter with the instrument in the hall: the clavichord has a long reverb, so an excessive speed would generate a bad, confused sound. The interpreter cannot impose his own idea of ​​music on an instrument that already has its own "heartbeat". This is why it is essential to choose an instrument coeval to the music being addressed, because, for example, in the absence of the damper present in the fortepiano in the clavichord, which dries the reverb, the sound perspective is completely different: it is often the same instruments of the time that also reveal the plausible "metronomes" of the scores, while modern instruments can sometimes make us go "off course" without the prior knowledge.
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Offline Symphonic Addict

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1308 on: December 03, 2021, 11:42:09 PM »
The last post is more than a year ago. Interesting. It somehow shows the tastes of listeners currently.

Anyway, I think I detected why I don't enjoy Mozart's music quite much. Even though it is music made by a sovereign genius, I consider that his constant "perfection" and "mellowness" could play against it, it could become cloying quickly. It's too happy most of the time and that makes the music a bit monotonous in mood for me. I need more contrast between good and evil, that moves me in many ways.

I was listening to Mozart's Piano Sonata K. 330, first movement. So lovely, fine, delightful... I like it when I'm in the right mood, but when I am not, a sort of feeling of being seldom impressed pervades me, not because of the expert craftsmanship, but because all tends to be too merry and jolly.

I'm not demeaning him, don't get me wrong. It's just what I feel about how I react to his works.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1309 on: Today at 01:16:36 AM »
Anyway, I think I detected why I don't enjoy Mozart's music quite much. Even though it is music made by a sovereign genius, I consider that his constant "perfection" and "mellowness" could play against it, it could become cloying quickly. It's too happy most of the time and that makes the music a bit monotonous in mood for me. I need more contrast between good and evil, that moves me in many ways.
Have you listened to other composers from the period, like Joseph and Michael Haydn, Kraus, Salieri? I'd say that a lot of what listeners experience as limited emotional range is a feature of the style of the time and Mozart, at least in a few works, has a far wider emotional range than most contemporaries.

Quote
I was listening to Mozart's Piano Sonata K. 330, first movement. So lovely, fine, delightful... I like it when I'm in the right mood, but when I am not, a sort of feeling of being seldom impressed pervades me, not because of the expert craftsmanship, but because all tends to be too merry and jolly.
I have to admit that of the main bodies of works Mozart's piano sonatas are probably the ones I am not much enthralled with either, with the exception of the two minor mode sonatas and the last one, they are good, not great and rather closely fit the "perfectly crafted, merry, jolly".

Mozart could be innovative but usually (exceptions are maybe operas and piano concertos) he did it in a evolutionary way, mostly by expansion of existing forms to a larger scale and by enriching the rather lean style of early classicism, both in counterpoint and instrumentation (particularly woodwinds). Partly because Beethoven and the following composers wrote in a lot of genres on an even larger scale, it is often a bit difficult to appreciate what Mozart achieved. (And the piano sonatas are more clearly "dwarved" by Beethoven's than in the case of string quartets or so.)
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
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Offline Spotted Horses

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1310 on: Today at 02:09:18 AM »
The last post is more than a year ago. Interesting. It somehow shows the tastes of listeners currently.

Anyway, I think I detected why I don't enjoy Mozart's music quite much. Even though it is music made by a sovereign genius, I consider that his constant "perfection" and "mellowness" could play against it, it could become cloying quickly. It's too happy most of the time and that makes the music a bit monotonous in mood for me. I need more contrast between good and evil, that moves me in many ways.

I was listening to Mozart's Piano Sonata K. 330, first movement. So lovely, fine, delightful... I like it when I'm in the right mood, but when I am not, a sort of feeling of being seldom impressed pervades me, not because of the expert craftsmanship, but because all tends to be too merry and jolly.

I'm not demeaning him, don't get me wrong. It's just what I feel about how I react to his works.

There is a lot of discussion of Mozart on this board, just not on this thread.

Piano Sonata in Mozart's time were mostly charming salon music. Intense musical expression is mostly found when Mozart writes in other genres. Typically in the chamber music (especially the string quintets) some of the concertos, some of the symphonies, and in opera. The music that accompanies Don Giovanni's descent into hell is the most harrowing that you will hear from Mozart's era, I think.


Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1311 on: Today at 09:22:02 AM »
Call me a madman but I vastly prefer Mozart's piano sonatas (and Haydn's, for that matter) over Beethoven's.
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1312 on: Today at 09:50:16 AM »
Call me a madman but I vastly prefer Mozart's piano sonatas (and Haydn's, for that matter) over Beethoven's.

madman
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1313 on: Today at 09:52:03 AM »
madman

+ 1. Beyond mere eccentricity.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1314 on: Today at 10:34:47 AM »
madman

Says the man who some time ago claimed that Mozart's piano sonatas are more rewarding musically than Beethoven's (or something like that).  ;)
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1315 on: Today at 10:36:24 AM »
+ 1. Beyond mere eccentricity.

I never knew that preferring one composer over another is madness beyond mere eccentricity. Live and learn.
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1316 on: Today at 10:41:56 AM »
The last post is more than a year ago. Interesting. It somehow shows the tastes of listeners currently.

Anyway, I think I detected why I don't enjoy Mozart's music quite much. Even though it is music made by a sovereign genius, I consider that his constant "perfection" and "mellowness" could play against it, it could become cloying quickly. It's too happy most of the time and that makes the music a bit monotonous in mood for me. I need more contrast between good and evil, that moves me in many ways.

I was listening to Mozart's Piano Sonata K. 330, first movement. So lovely, fine, delightful... I like it when I'm in the right mood, but when I am not, a sort of feeling of being seldom impressed pervades me, not because of the expert craftsmanship, but because all tends to be too merry and jolly.

I'm not demeaning him, don't get me wrong. It's just what I feel about how I react to his works.

There are people who have tried to inject a bit of complexity and ambiguity and indeed darkness into 330/1, but I'm not sure it works like that for me. Maybe see what you make of Lubimov and Brendel's final recording, they'd be examples I think.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1317 on: Today at 10:49:18 AM »
“The sonatas of Mozart are unique; they are too easy for children, and too difficult for artists.”Artur Schnabel
"Melody is the essence of music." - Mozart

"Believe nothing you hear, and only one-half that you see." - Edgar Allan Poe

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1318 on: Today at 10:59:03 AM »
“The sonatas of Mozart are unique; they are too easy for children, and too difficult for artists.”Artur Schnabel

I just listened to Gould play it. The interesting thing is that there are a few early recordings, he obviously enjoyed the sonata, and the performances are quite conservative. The one in the complete set is motoric. Something clearly got into him when he was making the complete set. Actually here they are on youtube

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/lTsu8wBl4N0&amp;ab_channel=DanielPoulin" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/lTsu8wBl4N0&amp;ab_channel=DanielPoulin</a>

And then look what happened

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/M7YWHnXZfyo&amp;ab_channel=kubekbeta5" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/M7YWHnXZfyo&amp;ab_channel=kubekbeta5</a>

« Last Edit: Today at 11:01:54 AM by Mandryka »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: Mozart
« Reply #1319 on: Today at 11:10:43 AM »
The Schnabel quote is of interest. It does not prop up the eccentricity of preferring the Mozart Sonatas to those of Beethoven. Obviously.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot