Mozart

[Pohjolas Daughter]

When I decided to start going through Mozart's catalogue chronologically I admit to being surprised at just how quickly his music became enjoyable. Is the stuff he wrote at age 12 as good as the stuff he wrote as an adult? No. Is it pleasant to listen to? In my opinion, yes.

Thank you gents for your thoughts.  From what I recall hearing of some of his earlier works, I felt amazed at how quickly he learned and developed as a composer.  That said, I also am trying to be realistic as to how much/often I would listen to certain works and also on what to spend my money.    That said, I'm willing to keep my mind open.

PD

[lordlance]

So, it looks like (according to one boxed set) that he wrote 45 complete symphonies?

PD

No definite answer for that I am afraid. The most comprehensive box set - Hogwood's - runs to 19 discs for examples as opposed to the more typical 10. His set has 68 symphonic works. In any case it's definitely more than 45.

[DavidW]

No definite answer for that I am afraid. The most comprehensive box set - Hogwood's - runs to 17 discs for examples as opposed to the more typical 19. His set has 68 symphonic works. In any case it's definitely more than 45.

Yeah I forgot how ridiculously comprehensive the Hogwood set is!  It reminds me of some of those Bach organ sets which has every scrap that might or might not even be written by Bach.

[Madiel]

Yeah I forgot how ridiculously comprehensive the Hogwood set is!  It reminds me of some of those Bach organ sets which has every scrap that might or might not even be written by Bach.

The question for me is whether a set explains what it's doing. Open acknowledgment that something is doubtful (or even sometimes now confirmed to be spurious) allows a person to know what they are getting.

Similarly, it's good if a set explains that it's sticking to safer ground.

[lordlance]

The question for me is whether a set explains what it's doing. Open acknowledgment that something is doubtful (or even sometimes now confirmed to be spurious) allows a person to know what they are getting.

Similarly, it's good if a set explains that it's sticking to safer ground.

Discarding the specific number, I think generally you'll find sets run to 10 discs. I would recommend something like Levine if you like modern and Pinnock if you want HIP. I would avoid Bohm because his "stately" tempi are ill-suited to the symphonies' vivacity (especially the early ones..)

[Madiel]

Discarding the specific number, I think generally you'll find sets run to 10 discs. I would recommend something like Levine if you like modern and Pinnock if you want HIP. I would avoid Bohm because his "stately" tempi are ill-suited to the symphonies' vivacity (especially the early ones..)

Thanks but I've already stated which set I intend to buy. And that's Tate.

He has 51 symphonies incidentally.

[Spotted Horses]

I was intrigued by the praise for Tate, reinforced by my memory that his accompaniment in Uchida's concertos wad nicely done. I downloaded #35 from presto for a few bucks. It was nice, sort of middle of the road, but didn't justify adding another cycle to my shelves. Makes me wonder why I have hogwood and not pinnock.

[Madiel]

To refer to some previous commentary, I do wonder why people treat the middle of the road as if it's a problem.

When driving, you're not actually supposed to swerve into the gutters to make it interesting.

[lordlance]

To refer to some previous commentary, I do wonder why people treat the middle of the road as if it's a problem.

When driving, you're not actually supposed to swerve into the gutters to make it interesting.

Depends on the individual. I dislike extreme interpretations in general - too slow and I want to quit immediately; too fast and it's hurried. Some people however love Celibidache which I find unfathomable.

[Spotted Horses]

To refer to some previous commentary, I do wonder why people treat the middle of the road as if it's a problem.

When driving, you're not actually supposed to swerve into the gutters to make it interesting.

I probably came across as more dismissive of Tate than I intended. The problem with the "middle of the road" is that it is crowded. I own or have owned Mozart symphony sets of various levels of completeness by Mackerras, Marriner, Krips, Bohm, Karajan, Bernstein, etc. Listening to an example of Tate's set didn't give me the impression that it is much different from what I have already heard. Something swerving to the gutters may not be likely to become my favorite, but is likely to bring out something I haven't noticed before.

[Madiel]

I probably came across as more dismissive of Tate than I intended. The problem with the "middle of the road" is that it is crowded. I own or have owned Mozart symphony sets of various levels of completeness by Mackerras, Marriner, Krips, Bohm, Karajan, Bernstein, etc. Listening to an example of Tate's set didn't give me the impression that it is much different from what I have already heard. Something swerving to the gutters may not be likely to become my favorite, but is likely to bring out something I haven't noticed before.

Well quite. To continue torturing the road analogy, I think that advertising for new cars is most relevant either when you don't own a car or there is an identified problem with the one you own. 

[Jo498]

The question for me is whether a set explains what it's doing. Open acknowledgment that something is doubtful (or even sometimes now confirmed to be spurious) allows a person to know what they are getting.

I don't have the Hogwood and box re-issues might not always have the full explanation why which works were included. AFAIK there are very few works of uncertain origin, there is one now attributed to Leopold and I think another spurious one "Odense".
The main reason why there is more in Hogwood is AFAIK that he includes alternative versions of full symphonies (e.g. in case of #40 w/o clarinets) and the "reductions" of serenades to 4 movement symphonies (at leat 2 discs worth).
Then there are a bunch of "sinfonias" for early operas etc. that are not included among the numbered symphonies and not in all "complete" recordings.

[Roberto]

Depends on the individual. I dislike extreme interpretations in general - too slow and I want to quit immediately; too fast and it's hurried. Some people however love Celibidache which I find unfathomable.

I think tempo is just one component of a performance. Sometime a performance which is boring for one listener can mean something interesting for others. I think there are musical aspects which obviously differentiate good performances from not good. But this is very difficult thing because it varies from composer to composer. And it varies from era to era.
I think tempo is important for Mozart performances and even András Schiff wrote about it in his book.

[lordlance]

I think tempo is just one component of a performance. Sometime a performance which is boring for one listener can mean something interesting for others. I think there are musical aspects which obviously differentiate good performances from not good. But this is very difficult thing because it varies from composer to composer. And it varies from era to era.
I think tempo is important for Mozart performances and even András Schiff wrote about it in his book.

My own tastes generally immediately dislike slow performances because they sap the music of its energy. It is possible however for fast tempi to ruin the music by being too hectic. So my tastes are almost always moderate to swift.

[lordlance]

The first time that I've ever the winds being at the fore instead of the strings in Mozart 39.III's main theme. Harnoncourt continues being bizarre as always and his eccentricities are probably why people love him:



It makes for a change in hearing if nothing else.

[Florestan]

Well, the best Kyrie in F major KV33 I've ever listened to is Harnoncourt's. Truly a child praying to God with all the jocularity and innocence of a true child. By contrast, the version in the Philips edition stroke me as bland and bland and bland.

[calyptorhynchus]

I was listening to Mozart's Hoffmeister Quartet, K.499, today, and struck by how the opening theme of the first movement is echoed fairly obviously in the slow movement. This is relatively unusual for a work on the Classical period. Can anyone think of another Mozart work that self-references in this way?

[Madiel]

This is relatively unusual for a work on the Classical period.

I don't think so. I can certainly think of examples of Haydn doing it off the top of my head. Beethoven multiple times of course.

[W.A. Mozart]

What do you think about this piece of the 12 years old Mozart?
Is it bad? Is it good? Is it excellent?

Write everything you want about it.

[joachim]

This Solemn Mass K 139 in C minor is actually the first of his masses (renumbered K 47a, and the second, missa brevis in G major K 49 renumbered K 47d). It is called Weisenhausmesse (Mass of the Orphanage) because it was composed for the consecration of the chapel of the Vienna orphanage, built by the Emperor.
I really like this majestic mass, which in my opinion has only been equaled in Mozart's later masses.