Mozart

[Mozart]

It doesn't?

Being squished between the Haydn and Prussian ones, this poor quartet doesn't get as much praise.

[Mozart]

When I listen to string quartets I get this feeling like this type of music is in a world of its own, and that you have to be totally out of your mind to follow it or even just enjoy it.

[Herman]

Honestly, I can't tell if one guy wrote 'em, or all "classical" SQ composer's SQs sound something like this (much easier for me to tell, maybe, in minor keys). For me, an ignorant, No.19 and No.23 sound like a different person than the rest, more..."special"? No.23 really has a "late" sound compared to 14-18.

See, this is what's so lamentable about the recent invasion of lies and dishonesty. Some listeners start to wonder about unnecessary things, instead of just enjoying the music. There are Mozart autographs for all these quartets, that are especially interesting as they debunk the early 19th C myth thatthe boy wonder as a grown man just wrote his music in one flash. The autograph for these quartets show much hard and detailed work by the composer. (Any cd booklet of any quality will tell you the same.)

The wonderful thing about Mozarts 10 mature string quartets is each of them inhabit an unique sound world: K387 in G is a powerful, dense, anguished piece (you don't need minor keys by this time to get that unique Mozartean Angst); K421 in D minor is spooky and jolly at the same time; K428 in E flat major is tightwound and yet quite smooth at the same time, with all those strange chromatic tendencies; the 458 B flat major is a rather popular one with a nickname; it's the most lyrical one in the set; the 464 in A flat at first sounds kind of subdued, it's the one with the least dramatic character, and yet it is a composer's favorite; Beethoven used it as a model for one of his op 18 quartets. The 465 is very dramatic. The slow mvt with its stately rhythm is perhaps the only time one thinks of Haydn as a model.

The Hoffmeister 499 in D major used to be a fovorite of mine. Like the Hunt it is very lyrical and really a showcase for the first violin. In some respects the writing is a little less dense than in the other quartets, and maybe it is not quite the same stellar level. Say, like the Hunt it is a piece one can listen to while driving without risking other people's lives.

The three Prussians are amazing. They are different than the Haydn quartets in the same way as all Mozart by that time was less overtly brilliant than previously.

[Cato]

Believe in Luchesi ... or THEY will get you! (cue shock music)

He wrote the intro for the Dissonance Quartet whilst communing with...

   Hoo!    Ha-HAAA!!!   

[Herman]

BTW the moniker "Sunrise" for 387 is new to me. There is a Haydn SQ with that name, but as far as I know the K387 is rightly without a nickname.

[karlhenning]

BTW the moniker "Sunrise" for 387 is new to me. There is a Haydn SQ with that name, but as far as I know the K387 is rightly without a nickname.

I've only seen it on the arkivmusic page for the quartets . . . so I took it for an "Internet artifact."

[karlhenning]

The rondo which concludes the K.452 Quintet, now;  I've always liked it, of course.  It just seems especially inspired and rich in graces, after The Supposed "Ghost-Writer."

(Just saying.)

[karlhenning]

Because of Mozart's status as an archetypal "original genius," those who write about his music have been squeamish about facing up to the not inconsiderable totality of his musical borrowings. It has long been comfortably accepted that Mozart quoted from, paraphrased or alluded to earlier music of his own. The categories that have been proposed to deal with his borrowings from other sources have, however, tended to be restricted to explanations which can be harmonized with notions of originality, autonomy and genius: common coinages, programmatic references, emulation of or tributes to mentors, or clever in-jokes aimed at friends, patrons and colleagues. Consideration of a host of other potentially embarrassing possibilities has generally been avoided (one might even say suppressed); among them are theft, fraud, laziness, failure of inspiration, mockery of colleagues, or an ill-concealed competitive desire to - as Mozart said of Giuseppe Cambini in 1778 - "die Augen ... ausgelöscht." Mozart is a 'genius', geniuses create masterpieces, masterpieces are "perfect". Many of Mozart's admirers, who seem to want not only his music but his person to be "perfect," have exercised damage control in their naming of possible motivations for his borrowings. In establishing the extent and nature of Mozart's borrowings, my talk will necessarily speculate about both his psychology and the psychologies of those who have been too eager to sanitize his character.

Apart from this not meaning what The Daft Propagandist fondly imagines it to mean, it is telling that the close of this opening paragraph declares (no surprise) that the lecture to follow is at heart speculation.

In our untiring willingness to state the obvious where necessary, we reiterate a few points which have been made many times before, in many contexts:

1. Genius does not 'depend' on every note being 'purely original'.  The near-strawman (IMO) of Zaslaw's paragraph is an offshoot of the "anxiety of influence" bugbear which haunted certain musical circles mid-20th century.  Whether as composer, or as student of music history, I consider this a profound non-issue.

2. The fact that Mozart borrowed (some), alluded to and echoed other sources does not 'diminish' his genius.  Nor is this any matter of "cult of Mozart";  it is the nature of composition.  Why, only yesterday I wrily commented on a Bach-Mozart-Jethro Tull connection.

3. The instances of Mozart's 'borrowings' (even largely interpreted) in no way diminishes the magnitude of his talent or of his accomplishment.  What matters (and what is in genuine admiration) is not "pure originality of every note," but the high quality and brilliant character of the musical result to which Mozart turns it.  To give an analogous counter-example:  not every student graduation-piece which is a setting of Schiller's "Ode to Joy" is the artistic equal to the Beethoven Opus 125.

4. Where Mozart 'copped licks' from lesser contemporaries, this means neither that Mozart's talent or accomplishment is any less, nor that the lesser contemporary is "Mozart's equal" in the question of genius.  Another reverse example:  Is "Full Moon and Empty Arms" as great an artistic achievement as the Rakhmaninov concerto from which it takes its tune?

Having said all that: I have no reason to doubt that Zaslaw's lecture was of entertainment and even of musical interest on its own merits;  and one certainly allows him to frame his lecture in the terms of his opening paragraph.  It isn't the byzantine "gotcha" that The Daft Propagandist shrilly crows.

[ChamberNut]

BTW the moniker "Sunrise" for 387 is new to me. There is a Haydn SQ with that name, but as far as I know the K387 is rightly without a nickname.

I've got "Spring" as a moniker for K.387, on the ABQ set I have.

[karlhenning]

I've got "Spring" as a moniker for K.387, on the ABQ set I have.

FWIW, neither Robbins Landon nor Gutman (nor Spaethling, in his edition of the letters) alludes to any nickname for the K.387.

[ChamberNut]

FWIW, neither Robbins Landon nor Gutman (nor Spaethling, in his edition of the letters) alludes to any nickname for the K.387.

That's OK.  I'll still play it on the Spring Solstice! 

[karlhenning]

Well, there's nought wrong wi' that, laddie!

[Herman]

1. Genius does not 'depend' on every note being 'purely original'.  The near-strawman (IMO) of Zaslaw's paragraph is an offshoot of the "anxiety of influence" bugbear which haunted certain musical circles mid-20th century.  Whether as composer, or as student of music history, I consider this a profound non-issue.

Indeed. Mozart's genius didn't just consist in 'inventing' new stuff, but also in combining and juxtaposing all kinds of material and tropes he'd met on his way to maturity. The feverish way he absorbed the J.S. Bach material Baron Von Swieten provided him with in the early eighties is a case in point. All really great art geniuses have had this sponge-like capacity.

[karlhenning]

These string quintets are so marvelous, it shames me to think all the years I neglected them.

[ChamberNut]

These string quintets are so marvelous, it shames me to think all the years I neglected them.

They are, Karl*!  I think they are even better than his string quartets.

[Herman]

I recently heard K516, the most celebrated one of the quintets, in concert (Daniel Qt). It's fascinating to watch those shifting combinations -  it starts, for instance as a string trio.

[snyprrr]

Don't worry, i'm not getting too wrapped up in recent drama. My comment about "sounding like a different guy" was something like:

early Webern vs. late Webern... truly, one might not be criticized for thinking they were different composers, the change is that great.

Thinking LvB SQs, also, comparing the first and the last, an ignorant might think they were two different people... there is great growth in his work.

On the other hand, I think, Guido? mentioned Goldschmidt as sounding pretty much the same from 1936 through the 70s. Who are other composers who stuck to their style? Spohr?

I'm listening to Mozart SQ No.23 again now. It still sounds more "subdued", but those "dangling floral chromatics", the "perfume" still say "Mozart" to me. So I ask, are "noodly chromatic embellishments" Mozart's trademark? To me, it gives the music a slightly "tipsy" character, like a drunk who doesn't know whether to laugh or cry?
Yea, keep in mind, the above posts were written after my first week of listening, and it was late and I can't listen then. Listening to No.23 now, I can see how my wording was probably ill advised, and perhaps, colored by all the drama. No.23 still "sounds" later, more reserved, and wot not, but yea, it still has enough Mozart-y things where...I mean, if there were only three composers (Haydn, Mozz, LvB), it would be obvious who it was. He does come off as petulant...as if he's constantly making fun of the stiff gentry (those upward chromatics + deft pauses). Haydn's humor comes off differently. And LvB??? Humor?

arrrph!-please don't get stuck on that last comment! YKWIM!

ok... if it has "diddle diddles" and "bum bum bums", it's Mozz!!!

[Valentino]

Ripped off Tom Waits:

The viola has been drinkin' (not me).

[Mozart]

I've read many times of the dirty letters Mozart wrote his cousin, but I've never actually read the letter...I'm so curious!

[Herman]

think infantile potty humor, only more inventive linguistically.