Mozart

Started by facehugger, April 06, 2007, 02:37:52 PM

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Scarpia

Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 10:38:10 AM
lol compared to today's standards, to the 21st century person?

Not to you, obviously.  Again, as Elgarian said above, you attribute your shortcomings to the music itself.  You are a colorblind person trying to convince us that Picasso painted only in shades of grey.


Herman

Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 10:38:10 AM
lol compared to today's standards, to the 21st century person?

To me, yes. Maybe not to you.

Go to a good performance of Don Giovanni or the 491 piano concerto, or the 575 quartet and I have no doubt many people will be deeply moved. Not you, of course. You're a tough guy.

DavidW

I didn't know that disturbing was necessary for greatness! :D  I would have to throw alot of music in the dumpster if that were the case. :)

Franco

Mozart's problem is that he did not write a string quartet with heliocopter,or instruct the members to perform naked, or to play their instruments in any way except in the manner they were trained to play them.

Hence his simple, light, safe, polite & tame pieces fail to disturb.

knight66

Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 09:15:28 AM
but fanboy Elgarian's wordy defensive indulgent blathering still doesnt change things for us tho ...


James, Please stop writing like a brat. Stick to the issues would you and leave the personal comments out. It just attracts like for like traffic which does nothing to further the discussion.

Knight
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Scarpia

Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 11:56:38 AM
It is the issue tho ... when someone states another viewpoint people should just except it, no need for long preachy replies etc... like that's going to change things? It simply won't.

You're arguing that you can't learn?

knight66

Elgarian's reply....as always, discussed the issues and was not even vaguely abusive.

Mike
DavidW: Yeah Mike doesn't get angry, he gets even.
I wasted time: and time wasted me.

Opus106

#367
Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 11:56:38 AM
It is the issue tho ... when someone states another viewpoint people should just except it, no need for long preachy replies etc... like that's going to change things? It simply won't.

In the hope that this thread will return to the discussion of or carefully thought-out criticism of Mozart's works, I present to you this.
Regards,
Navneeth

Herman

Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 10:55:35 AM
I've heard those ... but I mean come on man ... this is the 21st century, let's get real here. You guys definitely have to get out more. Mozart is not strange, unusual or disturbingly intense now. No, he's more simple, light, safe, polite & tame. And if you guys like that sort-of thing, that's cool - but you can't expect that to register with everyone, and it doesn't. True fact.

I can live with that, and I congratulate you on your self-declared coolness.

karlhenning

It's your trip to require disturbing intensity of Mozart, James. You need to be a great deal cooler: live and let live.

snyprrr

I sent RN a PM. The book's coming along fine, and I'm sure he sends his regards.

Philoctetes

Quote from: Franco on June 14, 2010, 11:22:10 AM
Mozart's problem is that he did not write a string quartet with heliocopter,or instruct the members to perform naked, or to play their instruments in any way except in the manner they were trained to play them.

Hence his simple, light, safe, polite & tame pieces fail to disturb.

I'm not the largest fan of Mozart by any stretch of the imagination, but ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq_S1zzGQck&feature=related

is that not haunting?

Scarpia

Quote from: Philoctetes on June 14, 2010, 12:51:36 PM
I'm not the largest fan of Mozart by any stretch of the imagination, but ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq_S1zzGQck&feature=related

is that not haunting?

Unfortunately, there's no particular evidence that it is by Mozart.  It was assumed to be, largely because people thought it was too good to be by anyone else.

Elgarian

I'd like to state that I'm not even slightly shocked, upset, or in any way disturbed by Teresa's (or anyone else's) dislike of Mozart's music. It disturbs me no more than would someone else's dislike of beer or butter. I was concerned only with:
1 - explaining why a mere expressed dislike of certain music doesn't imply that the music is bad;
2 - explaining the concept of the pathetic fallacy for anyone who may not be familiar with it;
3 - offering an illustration of why, in fact, Mozart's music might reasonably be considered to have merit, even by those who aren't fond of it.

Controversial stuff, I admit. Of course I see now that it could be construed as a vicious attack on all Mozart-dislikers, everywhere. (There are an awful lot of them, you know. A lot more than you might think!)





Franco

I think, and this merely my own view, that what goes into being well educated is knowing what is good and why.  To reduce all of the history of art to what "I" like is so self absorbed as to separate yourself from the rest of humanity.  Mozart is good, his music is not only technically masterful but his creative genius is undeniable.  When someone announces that Mozart is one of the worst composers all that's been demonstrated is the speaker is very limited in education and exposure to art or very limited in their ability to appreciate great music from a period divorced from our own. 

MN Dave

If I disliked Mozart and saw a thread titled "Mozart", I wouldn't go near it.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: MN Dave on June 14, 2010, 01:28:46 PM
If I disliked Mozart and saw a thread titled "Mozart", I wouldn't go near it.

Unless you were a troll... ;)

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

karlhenning

Quote from: Franco on June 14, 2010, 01:27:23 PM
Mozart is good, his music is not only technically masterful but his creative genius is undeniable.

QFT.

Not that (as others have observed) that means that everyone is obliged to like it.


Quote from: MN Dave on June 14, 2010, 01:28:46 PM
If I disliked Mozart and saw a thread titled "Mozart", I wouldn't go near it.

You're a good man, Dave.

Elgarian

Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 01:25:32 PM
Clearly you are upset though.
Not by Teresa's dislike of Mozart, I'm not. Several of your posts (not only about me) are personally offensive though, and that upsets me somewhat.

QuoteAgain, no matter HOW a person wants to state their dislike for the kind of music he did shouldn't be an issue. Deal with it. They aren't obligated to explain why in great detail esp. to touchy & preachy hardcore fans like yourself (or anyone else for that matter)
James, you haven't actually understood what the discussion was about. It never was about Teresa's (or anyone else's) dislike of Mozart. The fact that you think it was tells us more about you than you realise, but I'll spare you yet more discussion of the pathetic fallacy.

Franco

Quote from: James on June 14, 2010, 01:33:20 PM
Oh so people who merely state here that they don't like his music now are self-absorbed, uneducated, limited, a-troll etc ...

Puh-lease.

No, a person can say they do not like Mozart's music.  It just when they go from there to saying Mozart is one of the worst composers, they cross over into uneducated, or so pathetically self-absorbed to think that only what they like is good.