Mozart

[sTisTi]

I suppose I'm not the only one who is sick of James' attempt to derail seemingly every Mozart thread on this board with his trolling, so PLEASE everyone stop replying to his silly and provocative posts, otherwise we will spend page after page arguing with this person    instead of spending our time in a more useful way, like e.g. uncovering great recordings of Mozart's many masterpieces 

Here's one, for starters:

The Clarinet Quintet played by Wolfgang Meyer & Mosaïques Quartet, very cheap at the moment e.g. at Amazon.co.uk

[Antoine Marchand]

I disagree.  People that are happy or joyful feel the need to share it, and it can rub off.

I guess there are different kinds of happiness, but, in general, I believe that happiness is not naturally expansive, but rather selfish. Think, just to mention one case, in the happiness of lovers. Is there anything more selfish? They only exist each for the other, regardless of the rest of the world.

It is a bit disheartening, but I believe that the whole world history shows that happy people are not concerned about the happiness of the others, just excepting those cases when very specific social, religious or political ideas are involved. On the contrary, people are always eager to "share" their problems, needs, etc.

[DavidW]

I guess there are different kinds of happiness, but, in general, I believe that happiness is not naturally expansive, but rather selfish. Think, just to mention one case, in the happiness of lovers. Is there anything more selfish? They only exist each for the other, regardless of the rest of the world.

You're talking about love not happiness.

It is a bit disheartening, but I believe that the whole world history shows that happy people are not concerned about the happiness of the others, just excepting those cases when very specific social, religious or political ideas are involved. On the contrary, people are always eager to "share" their problems, needs, etc.

That is not the world that I live in.  Your perception of people is that they are selfish brutes, well that is your own failing.

[Opus106]

I've been listening to some of Mozart's adaptions of Bach fugues and it is interesting where he draws his influence.  He was evidently familiar with the organ trio sonatas, as well as the WTC and the Art of the Fugue.

In that regard, you might find this article -- Bach, Mozart and the 'Musical Midwife' -- interesting to read (assuming you haven't already read it, of course).

[Elgarian]

There seems to be a bias that great art should be tragic, dark, tortured.  It sometimes strikes me that it takes just as great a genius to create something that seems effortless, light and joyful.

Spot on, this, and I agree wholeheartedly. We're not talking here about something flimsy or fanciful, but something no less rooted in the human spirit - the expression of a joy that permits us to transcend ourselves. 'Happiness' is too bland a word to describe it. The kind of perception shifts that great joyful music can bring has the potential to bring us back from the brink of despair on the one hand (if we're unfortunate enough to need it), or to lead us outward and onward into new vitalising experience on the other. I don't regard that as less serious than the anguished thrashings of a tortured musical soul.

Mozart isn't just a great composer - he's a great musical companion: the kind of companion who's at my shoulder all the time, continually pointing out musical observations that I'd never have imagined myself, and - here's the joy of it - helping me feel his delight in it. It's a mistake to think that kind of activity lacks profundity.

[Franco]

I generally think profundity is over- and lightness/joy under-rated.

[Gurn Blanston]

I generally think profundity is over- and lightness/joy under-rated.

Ditto.

A specific Mozart work that I have read reams about, with the suggestion that it is profound and sad etc. is the g minor string quintet, K 516. I not only don't hear that, but in fact hear and feel quite the opposite. I find it quite an exhilarating piece, not sad a bit. Oh well, I guess I just don't get it. 

[Josquin des Prez]

I generally think profundity is over- and lightness/joy under-rated.

I think it is more pertinent to say lightness/joy can be just as profound as tragedy.

[Scarpia]

I think it is more pertinent to say lightness/joy can be just as profound as tragedy.

Exactly.

[Franco]

I think it is more pertinent to say lightness/joy can be just as profound as tragedy.

I suppose one would say that if they felt that tragedy was necessarily profound, and/or profundity was a high value.  I don't consider tradegy the highest form of theater; I think comedy is the harder form to master, and nor do I consider profundity as important as some other traits a person (and especially an artist) may possess, such as humility and a good sense of humor.

[Antoine Marchand]

I think it is more pertinent to say lightness/joy can be just as profound as tragedy.

Christmas and Holy Week Friday (obviously for the believers). 

[Florestan]

I generally think profundity is over- and lightness/joy under-rated.

Ditto.

Thirded.

[Ugh]

I find Mozart's Menuet in D-dur K.355(576b) a fascinating little piece.

The work is shrouded in mystery: Is it Mozart at all? (No autograph exists, etc). When was it written? Was it a study, an experiment? It has been discussed at length by scholars for years and years.

There is an anecdote that Mozart was accosted in the streets of Vienna by a beggar, who made it appear he was related to Mozart. As Mozart had no money he took the beggar to a coffee house and drawing some lines on a sheet of paper composed this Menuet and Trio. He told the beggar to take the composition to his publisher, where he got 5 guineas for it.

Anyway, I love the chromaticism and sudden dissonances in the work - and I think it shows a lot of Mozart's playful character - if it indeed is by Mozart

[Gurn Blanston]

I find Mozart's Menuet in D-dur K.355(576b) a fascinating little piece.

The work is shrouded in mystery: Is it Mozart at all? (No autograph exists, etc). When was it written? Was it a study, an experiment? It has been discussed at length by scholars for years and years.

There is an anecdote that Mozart was accosted in the streets of Vienna by a beggar, who made it appear he was related to Mozart. As Mozart had no money he took the beggar to a coffee house and drawing some lines on a sheet of paper composed this Menuet and Trio. He told the beggar to take the composition to his publisher, where he got 5 guineas for it.

Anyway, I love the chromaticism and sudden dissonances in the work - and I think it shows a lot of Mozart's playful character - if it indeed is by Mozart

The current wisdom (which is all we have, lacking concrete documentation) is that Mozart started a minuet for string quartet in 1782 (possibly related to the Haydn quartet project) and didn't finish it, just stuck it in a pile like so many other fragments. After his death, Maximilian Stadler completed a bunch of those for keyboard at Constanze's request, so they could be published and make her some money. It seems likely that this is one of those.

Mysteries abound, but that doesn't change the fact that, as you say, it is a neat little piece. Thanks for bringing it up.

[Opus106]

Was the opening tune of Notte giorno e faticar, from Don Giovanni, used by Mozart in some other work, or did some other composer quote it in one of his works? Maybe it was used in a movie or something? I'd not heard the aria before, but the tune sounded so familiar on first hearing.


From about 0:02 to 0:13.

http://www.youtube.com/v/o7j9LOHpZbQ

[(poco) Sforzando]

Was the opening tune of Notte giorno e faticar, from Don Giovanni, used by Mozart in some other work, or did some other composer quote it in one of his works? Maybe it was used in a movie or something? I'd not heard the aria before, but the tune sounded so familiar on first hearing.

Op. 106, look no further than Op. 120. Beethoven quotes the tune in the Diabelli Variations.

[Scarpia]

Here's one, for starters:

The Clarinet Quintet played by Wolfgang Meyer & Mosaïques Quartet, very cheap at the moment e.g. at Amazon.co.uk

Listened to that one very recently.  The quintet was a delightful performance.  The trio, charming but rather dull, IMO.  More Mozart's fault than the performers.  I am always struck by the fact that the fugato following the Turkish march in Beethoven's 9th symphony seems to quote a triplet figure that appears repeatedly in this charming little work.  Coincidence, or borrowing, I wonder.

[Herman]

ideally the 498 trio is at least as engaging as the quintet, so I don't know what happened.

[Opus106]

Op. 106, look no further than Op. 120. Beethoven quotes the tune in the Diabelli Variations.

Oh, yes! Thanks so much.

[Opus106]

ideally the 498 trio is at least as engaging as the quintet, so I don't know what happened.

As long it's a work by Mozart prominently featuring the clarinet, I'm game.