Mozart

[mszczuj]

Symphonies?

Jacobs, Minkowski, ter Linden.

[Madiel]

Apologies if this is going over ancient ground, but does anyone know if there's any difference between these 2 releases besides the cover?

[asin]B000GLKLCK[/asin]

[asin]B006XOBFB0[/asin]

[kishnevi]

Apologies if this is going over ancient ground, but does anyone know if there's any difference between these 2 releases besides the cover?

[asin]B000GLKLCK[/asin]

[asin]B006XOBFB0[/asin]

Liner notes in the older version giving a complete rundown of the concertos.  The new series eschews liner notes and limits the track listings and recording data  to the individual CD sleeve.   And the liner notes for the older set have a couple of pictures of Perahia.   The mastering is almost certainly the same--Sony doesn't remaster for these budget sets.

So if having liner notes is worth the extra thirty or so dollars (going by current Amazon MP prices),  go for the older set.  If not (and I suspect it's not worth it), the new one should do just fine.  I bought the older set soon after it came out for about $70US, and consider it money well spent.

[Madiel]

Liner notes in the older version giving a complete rundown of the concertos.  The new series eschews liner notes and limits the track listings and recording data  to the individual CD sleeve.   And the liner notes for the older set have a couple of pictures of Perahia.   The mastering is almost certainly the same--Sony doesn't remaster for these budget sets.

So if having liner notes is worth the extra thirty or so dollars (going by current Amazon MP prices),  go for the older set.  If not (and I suspect it's not worth it), the new one should do just fine.  I bought the older set soon after it came out for about $70US, and consider it money well spent.

Okay, thanks.  So, the older set is actually the one where he looks... older! LOL.

I do actually rather like having liner notes, truth be told. For example, I hunted down the fuller liner notes from Hyperion's series of Vivaldi sacred music, because the cheaper box set cut out so much information about individual pieces.

There is a fairly sharp price difference though.  I'm looking at Prestoclassical now (because they're having a DaCapo sale and I can snare all my Holmboe recordings dirt cheap!) and in Australian dollars one set is $74 and one is $40.  That's close to half price.

[North Star]

Okay, thanks.  So, the older set is actually the one where he looks... older! LOL.

I do actually rather like having liner notes, truth be told. For example, I hunted down the fuller liner notes from Hyperion's series of Vivaldi sacred music, because the cheaper box set cut out so much information about individual pieces.

There is a fairly sharp price difference though.  I'm looking at Prestoclassical now (because they're having a DaCapo sale and I can snare all my Holmboe recordings dirt cheap!) and in Australian dollars one set is $74 and one is $40.  That's close to half price.

Maybe you'd like to know that Hyperion has all the liner notes and artwork in PDF's for free at their website
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/

[Wakefield]

The mastering is almost certainly the same--Sony doesn't remaster for these budget sets.

It's true, but I'm pretty sure that Sony remastered all the old recordings when the big box was released for the first time.

[Scarpia]

Listened to the Divertimento K334.

[asin]B005TLWOLI[/asin]

Fantastic work (especial the second movement theme and variations, which gives the impression of being almost a romantic piece).  Performance was good enough to get the point across, but was not entirely satisfying.

Then tried this one

[asin]B00000C2G3[/asin]

Not HIP, but very nicely done.  Maybe next I will try Karajan's perverted 1960's recording with the Berlin Philharmonic.

[Madiel]

Maybe you'd like to know that Hyperion has all the liner notes and artwork in PDF's for free at their website
http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/

Thanks. I did know that - and that's how I got the proper liner notes for Hyperion's Vivaldi box set. It is one of the reasons for frequently visiting the Hyperion website!

(However, it is not of much use in the present case. Hyperion have only recorded a half dozen of Mozart's piano concertos - which doesn't surprise me, as Hyperion's core repertoire is rather different and has a much greater focus on chamber and other small-scale works, not orchestral).

[Bogey]

Apologies if this is going over ancient ground, but does anyone know if there's any difference between these 2 releases besides the cover?

[asin]B000GLKLCK[/asin]

[asin]B006XOBFB0[/asin]

I always thought that the ECO on the recordings I have let M.P. down or the folks on the soundboard were just not putting it all together.  Almost like a soda that has lost its fizz....and Mozart should have fizz in these.

[eyeresist]

I always thought that the ECO on the recordings I have let M.P. down or the folks on the soundboard were just not putting it all together.  Almost like a soda that has lost its fizz....and Mozart should have fizz in these.

When I was sampling various piano con sets on Amazon, I thought the Perahia sounded cold (I don't know his other work). In the end my choice was Anda or Ashkenazy.

[Leo K.]

Perahia was a gradual pianist for my taste, it took some years, but gradually he became one of my favorite pianists.

[Scarpia]

I always thought that the ECO on the recordings I have let M.P. down or the folks on the soundboard were just not putting it all together.  Almost like a soda that has lost its fizz....and Mozart should have fizz in these.

I agree that the ECO sounded drab in the recording I had from this set.  I think it is not attributable to the ECO, which typically sounds great, but to the fact that Perahia is directing from the piano.  I have the same issue with Ashkenazy's set, where the piano performance is brilliant but the orchestra sounds like an overstuffed pillow of sound.  Unless the pianist is a first rate conductor (like Barenboim) better to go with a conductor.   Schiff and Barenboim (Berlin) are my current favorite cycles.

[DavidRoss]

Rumor has it that a Greek economy professor lecturing in US used only Greek-origin words in his lectures (besides and, or, then a.s.o.) and the audience understood him very well. (Well, don't ask me his name...  ). I'm sure the same can be done with Latin-origin words with the same results.  ...

...because...

...Notiunile economice sunt universale! (this is in Romanian but you should be able to understand it  )

And also because the English language is omnivorous, constantly acquiring words and concepts from every other culture it rubs up against.

[DavidRoss]

who would you guys recommend conducting the late symphonies besides mackerras and szell?  i have bohm too, but i have to get used to the viennese style like his beethoven

Jacobs, Minkowski, ter Linden

Yes and yes! (I don't know ter Linden's)
Wish they would do more, but at least they've covered the best!

[Karl Henning]

You know, somehow to-day I am wondering how R— N— fares in his quest to uncover The Great Mozart Conspiracy . . . .

[DavidRoss]

You know, somehow to-day I am wondering how R— N— fares in his quest to uncover The Great Mozart Conspiracy . . . .

Given the subsequent disappearance of both from our hallowed halls, I suspect that he and Teresa took my suggestion to heart and found a match made in ... well ... somewhere. 

[Karl Henning]

... a match made in an undisclosed location!

[Karl Henning]

Aside from my relief that you deem Mozart of some value, despite the lack of intensity, I find this puzzling.  Is there any music of the period more 'intense' than the close of Don Giovanni, where the Don is dragged to the horrors of hell?  The two minor-key piano concerti also contain passages of harrowing intensity, to my ears.  The fuge on Kyrie eleison from the Requiem is another place where I hear an intensity in Mozart's transformation of the 'academic' style of Bach.  And aside from these broad examples, what I find thrilling about Mozart is that an intense moment can spring up in the most unexpected place.  For instance, the exposition of the symphony No 41, 1st movement, ends with a charming tune that suddenly become the subject of an intense fugato as the development section begins. 

Let us note, to start,  that I used such phrases as by and large and [not] much of anything to do with.

Don Giovanni (and the Requiem) are obvious and notable exceptions. The first is an opera (and even among his operas, a notable exception dramatically) and the second is sui generis.

Perhaps we are quibbling about terms.  I find plenty of energy in Mozart (that fugato passage you mention I should have called energetic rather than intense).  Personally, I find nothing at all harrowing in any of the concerti.

[Opus106]

The first movement of K. 491. It's doomier and gloomier than 466. While I find pent-up aggression exploding in the D minor, the C minor, to my ears, is bordering on hopelessness. And that last movement, unlike the D minor -- which has a D major ending, doesn't it? -- provides no sign of reprieve. And the feelings that I associate with this music are to some extent intense; and it's not simply a case of extended fortissimo passages.

[Scarpia]

I'm afraid, the part of my post on the Sibelius thread that I considered most significant was omitted.  In full:

Aside from my relief that you deem Mozart of some value, despite the lack of intensity, I find this puzzling.  Is there any music of the period more 'intense' than the close of Don Giovanni, where the Don is dragged to the horrors of hell?  The two minor-key piano concerti also contain passages of harrowing intensity, to my ears.  The fuge on Kyrie eleison from the Requiem is another place where I hear an intensity in Mozart's transformation of the 'academic' style of Bach.  And aside from these broad examples, what I find thrilling about Mozart is that an intense moment can spring up in the most unexpected place.  For instance, the exposition of the symphony No 41, 1st movement, ends with a charming tune that suddenly become the subject of an intense fugato as the development section begins. 

Aside from these considerations, my remark about intensity mainly dealt with performance practice.  Harnoncourt's Mozart style changed in later recordings, but in the Concertgebouw recordings he cultivated a more aggressive style.  They are the opposite of the stereotypical polite Mozart style (think Neville Marriner).  Strings play with bite.  Brass and horns, instead of providing gently accompaniment with rounded tones, bark agressively.  Large modern timpani played gently with soft mallets are replaced by the twack of smaller drums played with hard mallets.  Hearing these recordings completely changed my view of Mozart.  Recent recordings by Minkowski and Rene Jacobs have brought a similar energy to performance of Mozart's late symphonies, but I do not think they exceed what Harnoncourt accomplished in those Concertgebouw recordings from the 80's.

Application of "intense" to music is a metaphor, or an assumption about the composers intent, in my view.  My main point is that a lot is missed when Mozart's music is played in uniformly gentle, polite, dignified manner (i.e., in any recording by Neville Marriner).  After listening to Harnoncourt's performances of the late symphonies, I came to see Mozart as a composer who relished the sound of the orchestra, including the power and intensity of it, and wanted to exploit it to the maximum extent possible.   That's what I feel Harnoncourt conveys in his Concertgebouw performances.