Mozart

Started by facehugger, April 06, 2007, 02:37:52 PM

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Wakefield

BTW, this recalls me a lovely new release of these concertos:



Is it just my idea or this cover is particularly sad? With the great Reinhard Goebel nostalgically looking the violin.  :(
"One of the greatest misfortunes of honest people is that they are cowards. They complain, keep quiet, dine and forget."
-- Voltaire

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Gordo on August 10, 2014, 06:02:43 PM
BTW, this recalls me a lovely new release of these concertos:



Is it just my idea or this cover is particularly sad? With the great Reinhard Goebel nostalgically looking the violin.  :(

He certainly looks pensive. And that looks like a great disk! I will be looking it up. :)

8)
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Karl Henning

Quote from: ChamberNut on August 10, 2014, 06:00:41 PM
Hmmm, interesting indeed, Gurn.  I did not know he had done one with the Kremerata Baltica!  :o

FWIW, that's the one I've got, too.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Brian

Question!

Reading the booklet notes of Harnoncourt's new Mozart 39/40/41. Harnoncourt says this in the interview:

"Gambling debts - an oft-adduced argument for his begging letters [to Puchberg] - are highly unlikely, given the content of these letters, and they hardly explain his desperate need for money. Whenever he traveled to Prague or elsewhere, he used his own carriage, or else he hired one. His letters to Puchberg were evidently written for a very different reason, which Mozart did all in his power to conceal. It was presumably hush money demanded by a blackmailer."

My question is WHAT?!?!?

North Star

Quote from: Brian on September 13, 2014, 06:17:44 AM
Question!

Reading the booklet notes of Harnoncourt's new Mozart 39/40/41. Harnoncourt says this in the interview:

"Gambling debts - an oft-adduced argument for his begging letters [to Puchberg] - are highly unlikely, given the content of these letters, and they hardly explain his desperate need for money. Whenever he traveled to Prague or elsewhere, he used his own carriage, or else he hired one. His letters to Puchberg were evidently written for a very different reason, which Mozart did all in his power to conceal. It was presumably hush money demanded by a blackmailer."

My question is WHAT?!?!?
Salieri is of course the blackmailer.  :D
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Karl Henning

Has Harnoncourt "jumped the croquet hoop"?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

North Star

Quote from: karlhenning on September 13, 2014, 11:52:12 AM
Has Harnoncourt "jumped the croquet hoop"?
Perhaps he's just damaged his head after tripping over on the podium.

This is wonderful, btw:  :laugh:
Quote from: Brian on September 13, 2014, 06:17:44 AMQuestion!
...
My question is WHAT?!?!?
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Brian on September 13, 2014, 06:17:44 AM
Question!

Reading the booklet notes of Harnoncourt's new Mozart 39/40/41. Harnoncourt says this in the interview:

"Gambling debts - an oft-adduced argument for his begging letters [to Puchberg] - are highly unlikely, given the content of these letters, and they hardly explain his desperate need for money. Whenever he traveled to Prague or elsewhere, he used his own carriage, or else he hired one. His letters to Puchberg were evidently written for a very different reason, which Mozart did all in his power to conceal. It was presumably hush money demanded by a blackmailer."

My question is WHAT?!?!?

Mine would be who and who? 

A> presumed by who?  Certainly no one with the confidence to publish it (that I've ever heard of)

B> who was the blackmailer? Mozart himself, or was he being blackmailed and thus needed extra cash?

Either way, it is a intellectual leap of Newmanesque proportions to publish such a thing as a 'done deal' in the liner notes of a CD with no further buttressing. ::)  I think Nicky is getting a little bit addled. Hasn't affected his conducting anyway; maybe he needs to stick with what got him here. :)

8)
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Ken B

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on September 13, 2014, 12:07:38 PM
Mine would be who and who? 

A> presumed by who?  Certainly no one with the confidence to publish it (that I've ever heard of)

B> who was the blackmailer? Mozart himself, or was he being blackmailed and thus needed extra cash?

Either way, it is a intellectual leap of Newmanesque proportions to publish such a thing as a 'done deal' in the liner notes of a CD with no further buttressing. ::)  I think Nicky is getting a little bit addled. Hasn't affected his conducting anyway; maybe he needs to stick with what got him here. :)

8)
It sound like he is accusing Mozart. The observation about carriages indicates that Mozart had cash presumably. I'd say    ::) ::)
It's no secret Mozart spent profligately. He actually made quite a lot of money, but lacked restraint.

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Brian on September 13, 2014, 06:17:44 AM
Question!

Reading the booklet notes of Harnoncourt's new Mozart 39/40/41. Harnoncourt says this in the interview:

"Gambling debts - an oft-adduced argument for his begging letters [to Puchberg] - are highly unlikely, given the content of these letters, and they hardly explain his desperate need for money. Whenever he traveled to Prague or elsewhere, he used his own carriage, or else he hired one. His letters to Puchberg were evidently written for a very different reason, which Mozart did all in his power to conceal. It was presumably hush money demanded by a blackmailer."

My question is WHAT?!?!?

I was a little disappointed in this release. I generally love Harnoncourt, but these performances felt so far off the rails. I prefer his Mozart symphonies with the RCO.

Brian

Yes, I read it as Harnoncourt accusing Mozart of being the blackmailer, and Puchberg the victim.

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 13, 2014, 12:38:52 PM
I was a little disappointed in this release. I generally love Harnoncourt, but these performances felt so far off the rails. I prefer his Mozart symphonies with the RCO.
I was impressed by how well #40 fits in with the end of #39, but overall these performances really remind me of Rene Jacobs: aggressively eccentric, weird, operatic, blazing fast. I was surprised. There are some moments (particularly in #41, or the finale of #40 with those huge pauses) that took it too far, but mostly I liked it. Shocking contrast with Mackerras.

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Brian on September 13, 2014, 12:41:36 PM
Yes, I read it as Harnoncourt accusing Mozart of being the blackmailer, and Puchberg the victim.
I was impressed by how well #40 fits in with the end of #39, but overall these performances really remind me of Rene Jacobs: aggressively eccentric, weird, operatic, blazing fast. I was surprised. There are some moments (particularly in #41, or the finale of #40 with those huge pauses) that took it too far, but mostly I liked it. Shocking contrast with Mackerras.

Have you heard his Mozart recordings with Concertgabauw? Still that Harnoncourt style on display, but not as extreme. I just recently purchased their 25, 26 and 28 disc, also fantastic.
I've only heard Jacobs' 38 and 41 disc, and I really do like that.

Brian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 13, 2014, 12:56:09 PM
Have you heard his Mozart recordings with Concertgabauw? Still that Harnoncourt style on display, but not as extreme. I just recently purchased their 25, 26 and 28 disc, also fantastic.
I've only heard Jacobs' 38 and 41 disc, and I really do like that.
Check out the price the Concertgebouw recordings go for on Amazon!!!  ??? No, I have not heard them; may try NML this week.

I really like Jacobs too. Can you articulate why you prefer Jacobs, if you do, or Freiburg vs. Wien?

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Ken B on September 13, 2014, 12:22:38 PM
It sound like he is accusing Mozart. The observation about carriages indicates that Mozart had cash presumably. I'd say    ::) ::)
It's no secret Mozart spent profligately. He actually made quite a lot of money, but lacked restraint.

Your view is obsolete. I don't have the time or inclination to debate Mozart with you, but there has been a lot of water under the bridge since that viewpoint held sway.

If you can get this book from your library, else it isn't expensive, I highly recommend it for a refreshingly modern explication of Mozart's life, without nearly 2 centuries of biased (better and worse) encrustation grafted on.  :)

[asin]B007HXL1L0[/asin]

8)
Visit my Haydn blog: HaydnSeek

Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

TheGSMoeller

Quote from: Brian on September 13, 2014, 01:18:28 PM
I really like Jacobs too. Can you articulate why you prefer Jacobs, if you do, or Freiburg vs. Wien?

To start with I do feel that Harmonia Mundi offers a much better quality recording. Better balance, with a more prominent strings that don't always get drowned out by timpani and trumpets, which with Harnoncourt/Wien it is a little startling. Try the opening of Jupiter's 4th Mvt, when the opening p turns into a f on the ninth bar, both are aggressive, but the Freiburgers just sound like there's a stronger collaboration between the instruments. 
Perhaps the sound plays a big role in my decision, but I always believe that conductors have a say in how a recording portrays their ensemble, so in turn it could be an interpretive choice.

Correction: I HAVE heard Jacob's No. 40, I just don't own it like 38 & 41. No. 40 is tricky for me, (similar to Bruckner's 6th) where all four movements need to align perfectly, one out of place movement and it's shot. I don't prefer Harnoncourt's nonchalant approach to the 4th mvt. Allegro Assei. His still might be considered quite fast, but after his Mach 3 read through of the Menuetto, what follows seems out of place to me. Jacobs, although he is blazing through some of these moments himself, just seems to smooth the entire piece over, from beginning to end. Also, the slow second movement of 40 and 41 From Harnoncourt/Wien go by too quickly.

Another example of Harnoncourt's jumbling of tempos (to my ears) is with Haydn's Farewell, also with Wien. Super fast Menuett followed by a laid back Presto, but for some reason I really enjoy it here. It could be because the Farewell doesn't lead to a grandiose ff type ending, and therefore has the freedom to spread the climaxes and intensity throughout the movements.

Ken B

Quote from: Gurn Blanston on September 13, 2014, 01:56:39 PM
Your view is obsolete. I don't have the time or inclination to debate Mozart with you, but there has been a lot of water under the bridge since that viewpoint held sway.

If you can get this book from your library, else it isn't expensive, I highly recommend it for a refreshingly modern explication of Mozart's life, without nearly 2 centuries of biased (better and worse) encrustation grafted on.  :)

[asin]B007HXL1L0[/asin]

8)
Which part do you dispute? That he earned a lot or that he spent a lot? I read the blurbs, and nothing addresses either question.

Gurn Blanston

Quote from: Ken B on September 13, 2014, 04:13:16 PM
Which part do you dispute? That he earned a lot or that he spent a lot? I read the blurbs, and nothing addresses either question.

Blurbs don't really tell you much. I dispute that he was profligate and irresponsible. He did have unforeseen expenses due to his wife's health, but that wasn't a result of either irresponsibility or profligacy. He was actually comfortably well off with excellent prospects. That is the basic error of the received wisdom. Seriously, that story started with his sister who never forgave him for leaving her in Salzburg with their father. It was never true. One of the traits of his personality which shows in the Puchberg letters is that he was an all-out drama queen, and he felt that playing to the pitying side of Puchberg would get him what he wanted. Look at the bigger picture of what was going on in his life (and in Vienna) at the time and you will see that he hadn't mismanaged anything at all, circumstances overtook him.

8)
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Haydn: that genius of vulgar music who induces an inordinate thirst for beer - Mily Balakirev (1860)

Brian

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 13, 2014, 02:19:22 PM
Also, the slow second movement of 40 and 41 From Harnoncourt/Wien go by too quickly.
Those two slow movements were two places I definitely felt he swung and missed. I'm not sure if the 40 is too quick or too long - but there are several pieces where an interpretation can be both at once. You know...pieces where playing it quickly can work and slowly can work, but middlely doesn't work. Admittedly they are rare. 41's slow movement, though, is a clear mistake.

Overall you're right, the Freiburg orchestra simply sounds better, although I don't know if it's the Sony microphones to blame. Time to listen closely again and again! For what it's worth, I very very (much more) strongly disliked Harnoncourt's recent Haffner, which Mandryka called "transcendent." Mandryka and I tend to have opposite views on things. :)

Que

#918
Quote from: TheGSMoeller on September 13, 2014, 12:38:52 PM
I was a little disappointed in this release. I generally love Harnoncourt, but these performances felt so far off the rails. I prefer his Mozart symphonies with the RCO.

I haven't heard it but I do like his RCO recordings and disliked with a pasion the Early Symphonies recordingsof a few years ago. It seemed that H. completely lost his way in Mozart: abrasive, agressive even, and disjointed.... :(

This is the most convenient and affordable way to get his RCO recordings:

[asin]B000AOVKH8[/asin]
Q


Mookalafalas

Quote from: Brian on September 13, 2014, 06:17:44 AM
Question!

Reading the booklet notes of Harnoncourt's new Mozart 39/40/41. Harnoncourt says this in the interview:

"Gambling debts - an oft-adduced argument for his begging letters [to Puchberg] - are highly unlikely, given the content of these letters, and they hardly explain his desperate need for money. Whenever he traveled to Prague or elsewhere, he used his own carriage, or else he hired one. His letters to Puchberg were evidently written for a very different reason, which Mozart did all in his power to conceal. It was presumably hush money demanded by a blackmailer."

My question is WHAT?!?!?

  Some years back I read a volume of his letters, with heavy annotation (as in, embedded in a biography), and I remember being convinced (at the time) that mozart must have been being blackmailed.  I don't remember the name of the book, but I strongly suspect that that is what Harnoncourt had been reading as well. 

  By the way, I am listening to Giulini's late Mozart
[asin] B0000027U5[/asin]
   Wow.
It's all good...