Scriabins Temple

Started by mikkeljs, November 20, 2007, 04:44:56 AM

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Madiel

Quote from: North Star on March 05, 2013, 08:31:08 AM
Yes, Op. 30 is accepted as a threshold. Also the whole poème genre was Scriabin's middle-period invention.
Note how, after Op. 57, there aren't any key signatures (neither in many pieces before that).

I had noticed the appearance of large numbers of poèmes.  I hadn't consciously noticed, though, the disappearance of key signatures from the descriptions.

I shall continue listening with interest.

Oh, and Mandryka, it was Op.42/5 that I learnt to play. Nightmarish in more ways than one.
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Madiel

*bump*

My occasional listening has taken me up to opus 43 - the third Symphony (Le Divin Poème).

And it's a bit of a surprise.  The piano pieces have been getting very fragmentary, but suddenly this symphony seems to be full of great big red-blooded Romantic tunes.
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Madiel

I tried on the 'Recordings You are Considering' thread, and got no bites, so I thought I'd try here.

But really, we don't seem to have much of a Scriabin focus...

I'm curious for anyone's thoughts on the Segerstam set of orchestral works.  I'm genuinely surprised that there don't seem to be any thoughts on it, given that it's the version favoured by the Penguin Guide for example. I found one poster asking about it half a dozen years ago and no-one answered then, either.

I know lots of people like Muti's set, but Muti is missing the Piano Concerto and Reverie, so I'd least like to know where people would rank Segerstam's collection.
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Octave

#83
I am glad you asked and I hope to hear a perspective on this, too.  The two complete symphony sets that I was most interested in acquiring have both been out of print for a little while: the Muti and the later (~90s) Svetlanov (last issued by Warner?).  Melodiya reissued the earlier Svetlanov just a year or so ago, but I keep receiving accounts of the inferiority of its sound and maybe the playing as well.
I do want the Sviatoslav Richter PC that was included with that Melodiya set....I need to dig around for it elsewhere.
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milk

I don't know why I have such a hard time with this composer. I've been trying over and over again to fall in love but it hasn't happened yet. I know there is something genius here. I think I will take a break and try again. It's frustrating me and I don't want to give up. Recently I bought this:

Now on this recording I've detected horrible snorting and breathing. For me, it means I can't focus on the music but am just waiting for the next snort. I don't get how one gets over that.
Anyway, I ended up getting the Laredo set. I will push ahead with that. I also have the preludes by Marta Deyanova and etudes by Ohllson. I suppose some people would say, "if you don't enjoy the music then don't worry about it." But I feel I need to find a way.

Madiel

#85
Whereas I've actually been quite pleasantly surprised at how much I've enjoyed, going through the works chronologically (using Lettberg for the solo piano, and Sergstam for the orchestral works, both on Spotify).

I do think being a bit chronological helped, actually, as I was gradually exposed to the... disintegration of tonality I guess.

It's definitely been the larger pieces I've liked though.  Some of the preludes, or groups of preludes, and other works - particularly in the middle part of Scriabin's career - are just so tiny and fragmentary that they don't end up registering.  Whereas I've consistently liked the sonatas, and other solo piano works of, say, 3-4 minutes and longer.  It feels like there's a still a sense of form even as the harmonic style of the music becomes endlessly wandering.

I'm up to Sonata No.9 right now. I honestly didn't think I'd have much appreciation from No.6 onwards, but I've rather enjoyed my first listens.
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milk

Quote from: orfeo on December 13, 2013, 02:26:38 AM
Whereas I've actually been quite pleasantly surprised at how much I've enjoyed, going through the works chronologically (using Lettberg for the solo piano, and Sergstam for the orchestral works, both on Spotify).

I do think being a bit chronological helped, actually, as I was gradually exposed to the... disintegration of tonality I guess.

It's definitely been the larger pieces I've liked though.  Some of the preludes, or groups of preludes, and other works - particularly in the middle part of Scriabin's career - are just so tiny and fragmentary that they don't end up registering.  Whereas I've consistently liked the sonatas, and other solo piano works of, say, 3-4 minutes and longer.  It feels like there's a still a sense of form even as the harmonic style of the music becomes endlessly wandering.

I'm up to Sonata No.9 right now. I honestly didn't think I'd have much appreciation from No.6 onwards, but I've rather enjoyed my first listens.
Maybe my mistake is starting with the later acclaimed sonatas. It's not that I dislike them. They just haven't registered with me yet, even after trying lots of times. But maybe I should try again with the early sonatas first. I think I will find my way into the music. Trying to get into the 20th century, there is some music that's just knocked me over from the start - like Shostakovich's preludes and fugues. 

Cato

Quote from: milk on December 13, 2013, 04:02:57 AM
Maybe my mistake is starting with the later acclaimed sonatas. It's not that I dislike them. They just haven't registered with me yet, even after trying lots of times. But maybe I should try again with the early sonatas first. I think I will find my way into the music. Trying to get into the 20th century, there is some music that's just knocked me over from the start - like Shostakovich's preludes and fugues.

There is a definite change between the Fourth and Fifth Piano Sonatas: the Fifth points much more to the future, although it does retain a link back to the Fourth and the earlier sonatas here and there.

Consider the differences between the Fourth (Poem of Ecstasy) and Fifth (Prometheus) Symphonies!

Segerstam's
recordings of the early symphonies I find most excellent, although for the Third Symphony (The Divine Poem) I really like Pletnev on DGG.
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lescamil

Scriabin has sort of become one of my specialties as a performing pianist, and I've recently tackled the 3 Op. 65 etudes. What is your favorite recording of these works? I haven't really found one that I like completely, for all of the ones I've heard seem to be missing something.

A neutral reference point for those that don't know them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo90rVb4osk
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Dax

Do you not like Richter on op 65?

milk

#90
Quote from: lescamil on December 13, 2013, 12:27:18 PM
Scriabin has sort of become one of my specialties as a performing pianist, and I've recently tackled the 3 Op. 65 etudes. What is your favorite recording of these works? I haven't really found one that I like completely, for all of the ones I've heard seem to be missing something.

A neutral reference point for those that don't know them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo90rVb4osk
That is really bizarre haunting music! I don't know if it's just the midi, but it sounds insane. Maybe I need a recording of that.
ETA: I have the Garrick Ohllson.

lescamil

The problem I have with the Richter recording is that it is counter to my interpretive interests in the piece. It seems like he plays it more as a virtuoso etude (well, it is an etude), really emphasizing the technical aspects of the work, but I want to hear more of the interplay of the voices in the piece, particularly in the first one. A lot of pianists miss the all-important inner voices in that etude, and Richter is no exception. Also, it seems like pianists play the 3rd etude too fast and unclearly. I'll have to give Ohlsson a listen. I generally like his playing, and I don't know him for Scriabin at all.
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Madiel

Good grief. Amazon's price on the Lettberg 8-CD set is only $21.

I shall have to think about this. I wasn't sure that I really wanted a set of that size because there would be a few discs of the fragmentary little pieces I'm currently less convinced about.  But $21 covers the discs of the sonatas and makes everything else a very healthy bonus.
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North Star

Quote from: orfeo on December 14, 2013, 12:47:11 AM
Good grief. Amazon's price on the Lettberg 8-CD set is only $21.

I shall have to think about this. I wasn't sure that I really wanted a set of that size because there would be a few discs of the fragmentary little pieces I'm currently less convinced about.  But $21 covers the discs of the sonatas and makes everything else a very healthy bonus.
I haven't got too much solo piano Scriabin outside that box (Sokolov, couple of bits from Horowitz), but the Lettberg set is at that price an absolutely mandatory acquisition!
Which pieces do you mean by fragmentary? The prelude sets?
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Madiel

Quote from: North Star on December 14, 2013, 12:51:13 AM
Which pieces do you mean by fragmentary? The prelude sets?

Preludes, yes, but not only them. Some of the other 'Morceaux' collections and poemes, too. There are a lot of opuses that either consist of pieces each no more than about 90 seconds long, or even a single piece only around that length. As mentioned higher up the page, I've found these a lot harder to appreciate than the larger scale works while listening to Lettberg's set on Spotify (an opus at a time).
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lescamil

Quote from: orfeo on December 14, 2013, 12:47:11 AM
Good grief. Amazon's price on the Lettberg 8-CD set is only $21.

I shall have to think about this. I wasn't sure that I really wanted a set of that size because there would be a few discs of the fragmentary little pieces I'm currently less convinced about.  But $21 covers the discs of the sonatas and makes everything else a very healthy bonus.

This box set is a vast improvement over Ponti, which has not-so-great sound quality and the interpretations are very uneven. Lettberg is not perfect either, for many of her interpretations sound very metronomic. However, if you don't know the music and want something to get to know it on a neutral level, this would be for you. The price certainly makes it a risk worth taking.

I gave the Ohlsson Op. 65 etudes a listen, and I find his rubato a bit too extreme with it. I sort of wish he would just play the music for what it is, instead of trying to pull more out of it than what is there. I suppose it is the opposite problem I have with many other performers.
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xochitl

#97
so today is the 2nd or 3rd time i ever listen to scriabin. the previous times i tried to get through more than a few sonatas (performed by ashkenazy whos supposedly among the best in this music) and all i could think of was 'oh, so it's shapeless atonal crazy russian chopin' and that was that. next.

this time i started a midnight walk around my neighborhood (i just needed the exercise and fresh air. nothing to do with the music) and thought i'd give old scriab' another chance.
put on the 9th sonata, ashkenazy: ugh, terrible sound. how am i supposed to be transported to another realm if the piano sounds hollow and tinny? the thing went by, i made some mental notes. ok, let's put on something else.
in goes prometheus performed by gergiev/kirov. the stravinsky coupling i never bothered to listen to in the half decade ive had this recording.

starts off strange and im getting annoyed. all those half shades of things by the trumpets, snippets of god knows what fluttering about in the strings, like chinese debussy or something. i hold on and decide im gonna crack this guy, whatever it takes, so i keep walking.
before i know it the night starts weighing down on me. what is this feeling? i havent been afraid of the dark since the age of 7 or 8. is this really happening? i start looking around me anxiously for signs of danger. 'am i gonna die, here, in the sidewalk...wait, what are those things moving about?' and i literally jump then freeze when a light goes off and i see my shadow spread across a fence.
so i calm myself down and try to figure out if it's the music or if im just finally going cuckoo. it better be the music.
i keep listening and at this point ive turned around back home cos my legs are getting tired and im getting really paranoid and when the music starts making more tonal sense and i can sort of grasp at shapes and clusters and it doesnt sound like wisps of oriental smoke it starts hitting me.
it starts really hitting me.
i swear i had an of out of body experience. the last 4-5 minutes of the thing i kept thinking 'hes gonna make some kind of orgasmic resolution, isnt he?' and i just kept waiting for it not realizing i was already there. i started laughing out loud in intense pleasure mixed with disbelief.
and then it ended.
i took off the earphones, kept walking the last 2 blocks in stunned silence with a big stupid smile on my face, failed to recognize my house until i was almost past it, and finally collapsed on the porch looking at the stars. i think for about 60 seconds i felt the most purely happy ive ever been. like existence made sense. i wondered if the God i havent believed in a long time actually visited me personally.
and now im writing this because i have to tell somebody. maybe scriabin wasnt full of it
i hope it was the music
(and im not on ANYTHING)

Wanderer

(And to think that the performance you listened to isn't particularly good.)

xochitl