Linux/Ubuntu - Post Interest Here!

[Daverz]

Anyone an expert at working the Linux shell? How long would it take me to become proficient?

Well I'm still learning new things after 15 years or so of using the Bash shell, but I hate reading manuals.  My unix experience goes back 25 years, but I can't remember what shell I started with.  It's not just the shell, but all the unix commands: find, grep, sed, awk, etc.  I'd say give yourself several months of daily usage to become proficient.

(Even though I'm on a Mac most of the time, I always have a terminal window open with several tabs running bash.)

[ibanezmonster]

Well I'm still learning new things after 15 years or so of using the Bash shell, but I hate reading manuals.  My unix experience goes back 25 years, but I can't remember what shell I started with.  It's not just the shell, but all the unix commands: find, grep, sed, awk, etc.  I'd say give yourself several months of daily usage to become proficient.

(Even though I'm on a Mac most of the time, I always have a terminal window open with several tabs running bash.)

Hmmm... thanks. Sounds more difficult than what I was hoping. I get the impression that it blows away the MS command prompt, which isn't that hard to use.

[Opus106]

Learning Bash isn't all that difficult, Greg. Yes, it has MANY commands, but unless you were forced to remember the syntax for every one of them by heart, you can do just fine. Virtually every command is just a 'man page' (online documentation) away. As Dave (the one with the Z) says, using it frequently will make it second nature... unlike programming languages, you are not restricted to use it for specified tasks, but are free to use it for mundane, day-to-day tasks as well. (Not that high-level languages can't be used for mundane, day-to-day tasks, but there is a reason why no one in his right mind would do so. ) Sometimes I feel it's just faster the run a command than to use the GUI.

For an easy start, I'd recommend this place: http://linuxcommand.org/. After that you can have a look at the Beginner's and Advanced BASH scripting guides from TLDP (again, link is on the first page). Oh, and if you do learn BASH, be wary of 'rm -rf'.

[DavidW]

Oh, and if you do learn BASH, be wary of 'rm -rf'.

I think I would modify this to simply not use wildcard until you're ready.  A move command can be just as deadly!

I think that you can pick up the basics of bash in an afternoon.  In fact that was the very first thing we had to do back when I took C programming.  The advanced stuff follows later with experience, but the simple stuff is not difficult at all.

[ibanezmonster]

Learning Bash isn't all that difficult, Greg. Yes, it has MANY commands, but unless you were forced to remember the syntax for every one of them by heart, you can do just fine. Virtually every command is just a 'man page' (online documentation) away. As Dave (the one with the Z) says, using it frequently will make it second nature... unlike programming languages, you are not restricted to use it for specified tasks, but are free to use it for mundane, day-to-day tasks as well. (Not that high-level languages can't be used for mundane, day-to-day tasks, but there is a reason why no one in his right mind would do so. ) Sometimes I feel it's just faster the run a command than to use the GUI.

For an easy start, I'd recommend this place: http://linuxcommand.org/. After that you can have a look at the Beginner's and Advanced BASH scripting guides from TLDP (again, link is on the first page). Oh, and if you do learn BASH, be wary of 'rm -rf'.

Sweet- thanks for the link! 

[SonicMan46]

Navneeth - thanks for the additional link on the Linux command site;  also, thanks for that great link on Distrowatch - looks like a great place to keep tract of the latest news on MANY different distros.

Greg - I purchased a few books (small ones!) on BASH when I first installed Ubuntu - indeed there are MANY commands and switches (along w/ long manuals) - not hard to get a couple of dozen basic commands down but for an in-depth knowledge (easy to make silly mistakes just w/ the wrong switch), much more study and constant usage would be needed for me (esp. at my age - use to be better at this stuff 30 yrs ago!).

DavidW - well, I got my old IBM updated w/ PCLinuxOS (I needed different repositories selected in the preferences area of the update manager) and after a re-boot, seems to be working, but I'll certainly go to something simpler if I decide to make a switch.  Dave

[DavidW]

Cool beans, glad to know that pclos is still working for you Dave!   I was afraid that you thought it too slow now.

[Opus106]

Sweet- thanks for the link! 

Navneeth - thanks for the additional link on the Linux command site;  also, thanks for that great link on Distrowatch - looks like a great place to keep tract of the latest news on MANY different distros.

Pleasure's all mine, guys.

Linux.com has some very good, bite-sized tutorials suited for beginners. Especially look for the ones by Joe 'zonker' Brockmeier.

[mahler10th]

I am using Ubuntu at the moment...I tried it a few years back (probably posted earlier in this thread...) but couldn't get used to it...now I am checking it again, this time in its later incarnation.  Only thing is, the damn desktop seems to be hiding icons on the left and a bar or something at the top.  I can only access these things by hovering at the top and sides, changing resolution only brings them partially into view.  Harrumph!  Still...I will work on it...

[Opus106]

I am using Ubuntu at the moment...I tried it a few years back (probably posted earlier in this thread...) but couldn't get used to it...now I am checking it again, this time in its later incarnation.  Only thing is, the damn desktop seems to be hiding icons on the left and a bar or something at the top.  I can only access these things by hovering at the top and sides, changing resolution only brings them partially into view.  Harrumph!  Still...I will work on it...

Welcome to the New Age of Unfamiliar Desktops, John. I suppose you're using the current stable release (Natty Narwhal/11.04). The next version, Oneiric Ocelot - 11.10, is supposed to feature a smoother version of the Unity interface (that's the name of the fancy new UI), and its second beta was released today. Final release is next month.

Regarding the hiding icons, I use an application called Docky, which is similar, at least in appearance and gimmicks, to the Mac dock. I have opted for it to hide whenever a window is open, and is visible only when there are no active windows. That gives me a lot more space to work with applications.

[mahler10th]

Welcome to the New Age of Unfamiliar Desktops, John. I suppose you're using the current stable release (Natty Narwhal/11.04). The next version, Oneiric Ocelot - 11.10, is supposed to feature a smoother version of the Unity interface (that's the name of the fancy new UI), and its second beta was released today. Final release is next month.

Regarding the hiding icons, I use an application called Docky, which is similar, at least in appearance and gimmicks, to the Mac dock. I have opted for it to hide whenever a window is open, and is visible only when there are no active windows. That gives me a lot more space to work with applications.

Thank you Navneeth.  Ubuntu updated my graphics driver (proprietry) and everything is good and vsible now.  Ubuntu has come I long way from where it was in 2008, when I tried it last!  Installing stuff is much easier...the apps are endless...the interface is outstanding....download speeds have increased by ...er... an awful lot.... security does not require third party applications..., so the hell with my Avast Internet Security subscription next month...I no longer play games so gaming is not an issue and don't know if it would be anyway... Celtx (software for writers) is MADE for it...  I like it very much NOW.  Unfortunately, I have installed it alongside windows, but as I can do everything I want with it now, I WILL format my drive and install Ubuntu only...Astronomy software galore.... no need to fanny around with all manner of third party dependencies....it is CLEAN and, I think (correct me if I am wrong), self 'cleaning' ... 6 monthly cycle of new versions, which it presumably prompts when available, and does not mess with things when it updates...WHAT MORE CAN I ASK FOR?  Great stuff.  Free from Licenses, agreements, subscriptions...and it LOOKS AND FEELS much better than the Microsoft monopoly.  I am now DEDICATED to this stuff.
Thanks Navneeth.

[Opus106]

Good times, John! If you are dedicated, then have a look at OMG! Ubuntu!: a very up-to-date, and arguably the most popular, blog on the distro. Oh, and also Full Circle, on online Magazine with articles, tips and tricks and stuff on the *buntu line.

[Opus106]

Well, "Desktop Linux" is going places now (where people other than geeks may notice! ). There has been talk of Ubuntu phones, tablets and TVs for many months now, but Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu, has just demostrated a prototype of Ubuntu TV at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/ubuntu-tv-unveiled-at-ces

[Josquin des Prez]

Free from Licenses, agreements, subscriptions...

Free from the quality, professionalism and INNOVATION commercial products bring to the table as well. But we are not supposed to mention that.

BSD is the way of the future, Linux can never progress further due to the limitations of the stupid GNU licence.

[Josquin des Prez]

Welcome to the New Age of Unfamiliar Desktops, John.

Or rather, welcome to the age of retarded desktops. Of course, considering that Unity is merely a propped up Gnome 3, the fault isn't entirely due to Canonical, even though they took this retarded idea of having one single interface for TVs, tablets and desktops (what could possibly go wrong, right?) by heart. Even Linus Torvalds reputed the abomination that is the Gnome 3/Unity shell.

With Gnome 3 being the idiotic piece of crap it is and with KDE suffering from an acute case of Windows envy (which has resulted in an extremely pretty but heavy and buggy as hell interface), all we are left with in the realm of sensible desktop interfaces are Xfce and Lxde. 

[Opus106]

Free from the quality, professionalism and INNOVATION commercial products bring to the table as well. But we are not supposed to mention that.

Ooh, letters in caps!

By letting you have the source, you're opening up the application to anyone (or a group) to innovate. For all their "professionalism", when was the last time MS made something innovative on the desktop? (Don't tell me they made the taskbar glossier. ) BTW, Android runs on top of Linux as does the Chromebook.

BSD is the way of the future, Linux can never progress further due to the limitations of the stupid GNU licence.

We will await you here in the present as soon as the Time Machine is invented (and capable of contacting the past), the first model of which, I'm sure, will be running Linux somewhere inside.

[Opus106]

Or rather, welcome to the age of retarded desktops. Of course, considering that Unity is merely a propped up Gnome 3, the fault isn't entirely due to Canonical, even though they took this retarded idea of having one single interface for TVs, tablets and desktops (what could possibly go wrong, right?) by heart. Even Linus Torvalds reputed the abomination that is the Gnome 3/Unity shell.

With Gnome 3 being the idiotic piece of crap it is and with KDE suffering from an acute case of Windows envy (which has resulted in an extremely pretty but heavy and buggy as hell interface), all we are left with in the realm of sensible desktop interfaces are Xfce and Lxde. 

I'll give you that. But in comparison, I prefer, after running them on live CDs, Unity to Gnome 3. The latter is simply bad in so many respects. Linux Mint's customised transitional UI got a lot of press in the last two months, but I haven't tried it yet.

[Josquin des Prez]

Ooh, letters in caps!

By letting you have the source, you're opening up the application to anyone (or a group) to innovate.

Innovation doesn't come from unorganized groups, it doesn't come from the collective effort of some anonymous conglomerate of lowest common denominators. Its comes from the exceptional, the single individual who is at once better endowed then most and also has a greater commitment to his field of interest. It also comes from specialized teams, or is at least realized by such, and which are generally led by individuals of special talent in the first place. An hobbyist environment can never favor the exceptional, it can only favor mediocrity.

For the record, the problem with the GNU licence is not that the code is open source. There is nothing precluding innovation in an open source environment in and of itself. The problem is that the GNU licence discriminates against every other model, which is pointlessly limiting. Any company that wants to produce commercial or proprietary software contrary to the principles of the GNU licence is essentially precluded from developing on the Linux platform. That, to me, is a needless restriction.

For all their "professionalism", when was the last time MS made something innovative on the desktop? (Don't tell me they made the taskbar glossier. )

Innovations in what sense? Microsoft specializes in producing a commercial operating system which aims at being easy to use and "open" to a large variety of software and hardware products. In that, i think they have little competition, or at least did until very recently. But that's besides the point because we are not talking about Microsoft per-se, but innovation in the world of open source versus innovation in the world of commercial software, which includes every single commercial company in existence, not just Microsoft. The irony here is that while proprietary or closed commercial applications cannot be easily developed or ported on the Linux platform, the other way around is generally not a problem. That is, Microsoft does not discriminate on which type of software you want to run on their operating system, thus, many free or open source applications are available on both platforms. So not only is Windows open to most commercial applications, which are generally superior to their open source counterpart, but its also open to open source applications as well, making the argument moot. The truth is that from the perspective of a software developer, Windows is actually a more open and accommodating platform then Linux. The irony is, as they say, delicious.

BTW, Android runs on top of Linux as does the Chromebook.

We will await you here in the present as soon as the Time Machine is invented (and capable of contacting the past), the first model of which, I'm sure, will be running Linux somewhere inside.

Like i said, i think as time goes by BSD is going to supplant Linux in the realm of open source operating system. Not only is the BSD licence less restrictive then that of Linux, but the kernel is actually less of a mess.

[Josquin des Prez]

I'll give you that. But in comparison, I prefer, after running them on live CDs, Unity to Gnome 3. The latter is simply bad in so many respects. Linux Mint's customised transitional UI got a lot of press in the last two months, but I haven't tried it yet.

Well, considering i still run XP on my desktop (dual booted with openSUSE running Xfce) and i use Crunchbang for my laptop, you can tell i'm a bit asinine when to comes to computer interfaces. If i have to fight for more then two seconds against the interface i go into instant rage mode.

Mint offers an interesting compromise. All they did was integrate the old mint menu in the lower Gnome 3 bar. Its functional, but if you are using the mint menu bar you won't be using the top Gnome 3 shell, or vice versa, making each sort of redundant to the other. I was also a bit disappointed with the mate rollback, which, similarly to the Gnome 2x rollback found in the latest Ubuntu release, is more or less similar to the old interface, but not quite completely so. Its also buggy.

On a more positive light, i was very much impressed with both Xubuntu and Lubuntu, both of which are light and functional without being necessarily uneasy on the eye. Mint Debian running Xfce is also pretty good, but the rolling release update method makes me a bit nervous.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

I like the Linux Mint Distribution pretty much, because it's user friendlyness. But anyway, I don't need Linux as an OS, only inside a VM for some testing purposes. Too much of my prefered software runs on windows. Additionally, music production is completely on Windows or MacOS, but not Linux. Also, games. The Linux desktops fonts never convinced me. Not sure if this is an issue on high resolution screens though. Oh I can tell you, it's pure bliss having a 15" notebook screen at 1920x1200, the fonts are very sharp, you almost don't need edge smoothing stuff like cleartype, which is rather for crappy screens with low resolutions.