The MPO Announces Its New Music Director - Claus Peter Flor (CPF)

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

Oh! Well, there's a buch of happy Malays, then. Silly me, I had no idea the MPO referred to anything but the Munich orchestra. Blame it on a chronic distaste and disdain for acronyms.

I also first thought of the Münchener Orchestra first but the thread told me it's about another Orchestra but I didn't know which one (and didn't care).

[M forever]

Oh! Well, there's a buch of happy Malays, then. Silly me, I had no idea the MPO referred to anything but the Munich orchestra. Blame it on a chronic distaste and disdain for acronyms.

The correct acronym for the Münchner Philharmoniker is "MP". There is no "O" there.

[MichaelRabin]

Anglicized the Munich Philharmonic is indeed MP but if it were Munich Philharmonic Orchestra - MPO could be its short-form. M-Forever - any insights to CP Flor and his conducting?

[Lilas Pastia]

I think it's normal to add the "O" for orchestra when using acronyms. After all, it's implied. If an article referred to "Nagano and his MS" , one might think he's battling a deadly degenerative disease. MSO makes more sense.

[M forever]

The correct acronym for that orchestra is "OSM", just like the internet address. You of all people should know that. Apart from that, it doesn't matter what you think makes sense. The names of orchestras are not decided by you.

[Lilas Pastia]

MSO is how it reads in all Montreal and other canadian English newspapers, and how it's referred to on canadian English language radio stations. Whatever you say. Why don't you check your facts first?

[M forever]

Good idea. Let's take a look at their website:

http://www.osm.ca/fr/index.cfm

Well, OK, that's the French version, not the English one. I was under the impression though that the area was mainly French-speaking, according to some, even aggressively so.

Anyway, let's go to the English version:

http://www.osm.ca/en/index.cfm

The OSM is an artistic organization of international calibre that seeks to present the world's repertoire of symphonic music and concert artists of international stature to the broadest possible audience. The OSM plays a social and institutional role, investing in the development of every form of symphonic and classical music in its own milieu. The OSM is a professionnal organization that encourages innovation and excellence.

Aha.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

MSO is how it reads in all Montreal and other canadian English newspapers, and how it's referred to on canadian English language radio stations. Whatever you say. Why don't you check your facts first?

I don't know if it's relevant how Canadians or Papua New Guineans abbreviate an orchestras name .
One thing is for sure: As the second letter of an orchestra is very likely to begin with "Sym" and the third with "Or", there's plenty of room for collisions.

[sound67]

Fascinating discussion, folks... 

More like Levine just coming off a colossal bender.

That's actually what I wanted to express by posting that photo. I thought it spoke for itself ...  0:)

Why is there hostility towards Bamert - simply because he was too "gentle" with the musicians of the Malaysian Philharmonic? In fact he's a much-respected conductor partly because of his civility. Seems like the MPO musicians simply do not deserve civility? Also seems it's not as easy to forge a first-class unified ensemble just by bribing musicians to come to Malaysia. 

Thomas

[Lilas Pastia]

Good idea. Let's take a look at their website:

http://www.osm.ca/fr/index.cfm

Well, OK, that's the French version, not the English one. I was under the impression though that the area was mainly French-speaking, according to some, even aggressively so.

Anyway, let's go to the English version:

http://www.osm.ca/en/index.cfm

The OSM is an artistic organization of international calibre that seeks to present the world's repertoire of symphonic music and concert artists of international stature to the broadest possible audience. The OSM plays a social and institutional role, investing in the development of every form of symphonic and classical music in its own milieu. The OSM is a professionnal organization that encourages innovation and excellence.

Aha.

You could also check the Wikipedia article (which I'm sure you checked first but didn't bring up, for good reason). It's MSO galore throughout. And the proof of the pudding lies in the Canadian Encyclopaedia, in their extensive Encyclopoedia of music in Canada section. The origin and history of the MSO are related in detail (be sure to click on the arrow for the whole not really interesting story). For 81 of its 110 year history it was known as the MSO or some other completely English or bilingual designation. Forget about the official OSM site: what they won't tell you is that the name was changed in 1979 because of Quebec's linguistic laws (adopted in 1978). It didn't have a choice - otherwise, it's bye bye government subsidies. What you see there is the window. The store and its customers know better. But I understand how tourists and casual internet surfers can fall into the trap.

In any case, that's a very petty debate. An internet forum is for communication. If some bending of official names helps to understand some terms, then so be it. If I was writing in a French speaking forum it would be OSM. But this is an English speaking one. So I adapt. We are very good at that here. BTW what is the MPO's name in Malay?

[M forever]

You could also check the Wikipedia article (which I'm sure you checked first but didn't bring up, for good reason).

I actually didn't, I went straight to the OSM website. What the orchestra calls itself officially is what counts, not what you want it to be.

And the proof of the pudding lies in the Canadian Encyclopaedia, in their extensive Encyclopoedia of music in Canada section. The origin and history of the MSO are related in detail (be sure to click on the arrow for the whole not really interesting story). For 81 of its 110 year history it was known as the MSO or some other completely English or bilingual designation. Forget about the official OSM site: what they won't tell you is that the name was changed in 1979 because of Quebec's linguistic laws (adopted in 1978). It didn't have a choice - otherwise, it's bye bye government subsidies.

You haven't read the article properly. According to it, the present organization was founded in 1934 with a French-only name. Whatever similar organizations may have been there before is irrelevant. It is also irrelevant for today's purposes that there was a bilingual name for two decades or so. What is relevant though is the interesting information that the name is now officially only French. It doesn't matter why and it doesn't matter if you like it or not. That's just the way it is. I am actually a little surprised that you are so uninformed about the one (and only) institution in your country which plays any role in the international "classical music scene".

What you see there is the window. The store and its customers know better. But I understand how tourists and casual internet surfers can fall into the trap.

As did you. I didn't see any pictures but it sounds to me as if you are describing a shop window with an English title on it. It is not surprising though that they might want to have an English designation on the shop window because of the monoglot American tourists. Very nice of them.
But that doesn't change the facts reflected on the orchestra's website and the article you pointed to.

An internet forum is for communication. If some bending of official names helps to understand some terms, then so be it. If I was writing in a French speaking forum it would be OSM. But this is an English speaking one. So I adapt.

You are right. This is an international forum with quite a few well informed people from a lot of different countries. We don't need the kind of provinciality here which anglicizes absolutely everything. You don't even have to anyway. The OSM appeared on most or all of their Decca recordings under their French name. Which, as the proof provided by you showed is the only correct name.

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

You are right. This is an international forum with quite a few well informed people from a lot of different countries. We don't need the kind of provinciality here which anglicizes absolutely everything.

It's at least sometimes necessary to remind people and I like your idea of calling this "provinciality" .

[Lilas Pastia]

M, you're incredible !

[M forever]

Thanks for the praise. But I don't deserve it all, at least not alone. After all, you contributed just as much to clearing up that question by providing the information from that Canadian encyclopaedia.

[Lilas Pastia]

You're most welcome!

I think we have lost our Malay friends somewhere . I hope they don't mind that bit of hijacking too much.

[hautbois]

Firstly, to make things clear, Malaysia consists of many many different races, and being Malay doesn't mean you are necessarily Malaysian. Bamert did not do anything interesting with the programming nor did he inspire the musicians to perform at the highest level. CPF's appointment is a welcome for all Malaysians interested in classical music, and sure enough, the musicians themselves say that it is positive!

Howard

[Lilas Pastia]

I think I understand. You mean that Malay would be like Caucasian, Mongolian or Dravidic? IOW I was referring to a race, not a nation 

[hautbois]

I think I understand. You mean that Malay would be like Caucasian, Mongolian or Dravidic? IOW I was referring to a race, not a nation 

Exactly. 

Howard

[MISHUGINA]

Seems like whenever I browse this site, Lilas Pastia is making a fool of himself.   Restrain yourself man. 

]

aw come on. cut the guy some slack. Not everybody is a bloody scholar here.

As for someone here commenting about Bamert he is as efficient as Erich Leinsdorf with Boston Symphony Orchestra that is why everyone here rejoiced when he was replaced. We lucky bastards to have a conductor of CPF's caliber.

[M forever]

Seems like whenever I browse this site, Lilas Pastia is making a fool of himself.   Restrain yourself man. 

What is this nonsense? Do you have any information to contribute to answer the question?

So, what is the name of this orchestra in whatever language is the predominant/official one there?