Challenge to elitist scientific orthodoxy suppressed

[M forever]

The name is actually Wernher, not Werner. I think a college professor should be able to get the names of people he/she quotes right. This underlines the unprofessional silliness of the whole thing. And what von Braun meant is that we have to keep in mind that evolution is a theory which itself constantly evolves which means it is not "absolute truth" and it should not be taught as an absolutely true fact.

[Brian]

This should be amusing to those of you who have been following the whole "Expelled" thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaGgpGLxLQw

BEST. THING. EVER.

[bwv 1080]

The name is actually Wernher, not Werner. I think a college professor should be able to get the names of people he/she quotes right. This underlines the unprofessional silliness of the whole thing. And what von Braun meant is that we have to keep in mind that evolution is a theory which itself constantly evolves which means it is not "absolute truth" and it should not be taught as an absolutely true fact.

Just goes to show what die-hard evolutionists Nazi's were (von Braun being a former SS officer who used slave labor in the Nazi rocket program).  von Braun in his later years was a Christian who opposed evolution for all the same reasons as the ID crowd does today.  His opinions on the subject are as worthwhile as Stephen J Gould's aerospace engineering skills.

Evolution is a fact, what evolves is the understanding of its specifics - the mechanisms for speciation, the rates of evolutionary change etc. 

[Shrunk]

I don't think of it as MY side, because Im not convinced on ID. However, I don't really think it's fair to lump it in with all other "failings" of religious explanations in the past (i.e. the ones you mentioned). This one uses the same data, but chooses to make a few "other" assumptions. I think that solution is just fine for them (ID scientists) to rationalize science with religion, but just not scientific, based on the fundamental tenets of science.

To be honest, I think to get wrapped up in these kind of details whilst calling oneself a Christian is kind of missing the point.

It's not always easy to pin down exactly what is meant by ID, largely because it is not actually practiced as a rigid scientific discipline (I'm being diplomatic here).  You could, in theory, extend its definition to include people like Francis Collins, who accepts all the principles of evolution but nonetheless believes that the nature of the universe supports the existence of a Supreme Being.  However, he also does not believe this is an idea than can be scientifically verified. 

As the term is usually used, ID refers to a belief that there are certain biological structures whose existence cannot be explained by evolution, and therefore these structures are evidence of an "Intelligent Designer" who must intervene to create them deliberately.  The empirical evidence to support it is non-existent, and it's really just creationism gussied up to sound more scientific.

A long but excellent video on the subject can be found here.

[c#minor]

The name is actually Wernher, not Werner. I think a college professor should be able to get the names of people he/she quotes right. This underlines the unprofessional silliness of the whole thing. And what von Braun meant is that we have to keep in mind that evolution is a theory which itself constantly evolves which means it is not "absolute truth" and it should not be taught as an absolutely true fact.

Okay i guess i missed the point a little. I definitely agree that we should remember that the Theory of Evolution is exactly that, a theory. All the intricacies should not be assumed to be positive, but the theory in a broad sense, to me, is undeniable truth. It makes so much sense and explains many of the mysteries of life by logic. I had a high school teacher for biology that refused to teach evolution, then in my ecology class my teacher taught us the workings of evolution in the broad sense. He laid it out in a objective manner so that the class could draw it's own conclusions. We had an assignment to write a research paper on pro-evolution vs. anti-evolution, then we all read our papers in front of the class.  We were specifically asked not to draw a conclusion on the paper, just state the evidence for and against. Even with that rule, all the evidence supporting evolution far outweighed the evidence against it. Even without technically "drawing a conclusion" almost all the papers pretty much had evolution as the winner based n the research.

[Shrunk]

I had a high school teacher for biology that refused to teach evolution...

I wonder how he managed that?  It would be a bit like a math teacher who didn't believe in multiplication.  Thankfully, it sounds like you lucked out in your later school career.

[c#minor]

I wonder how he managed that?  It would be a bit like a math teacher who didn't believe in multiplication.  Thankfully, it sounds like you lucked out in your later school career.

Well in the bible belt ignorance runs high everywhere. That bio teacher was the definition of a literalist. He believed the Garden of Eden thing was how it all started. I know that's insane for a teacher of biology to believe that. Thank god he didn't teach us that, he just mentioned it to us when he explained why we were passing over the evolution chapter in the book. The guy really didn't know his stuff either, he was a football coach filling an empty position. The education system needs some serious reform when guys like him are allowed teaching positions for things other than gym and health.

[Ephemerid]

Well in the bible belt ignorance runs high everywhere. That bio teacher was the definition of a literalist. He believed the Garden of Eden thing was how it all started. I know that's insane for a teacher of biology to believe that. Thank god he didn't teach us that, he just mentioned it to us when he explained why we were passing over the evolution chapter in the book. The guy really didn't know his stuff either, he was a football coach filling an empty position. The education system needs some serious reform when guys like him are allowed teaching positions for things other than gym and health.

My sympathies, c#minor.      I know exactly what you are talking about... (living a good chunk of my life in Louisiana)

[Al Moritz]

Interesting in the context:

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2008/US/140_newest_templeton_prize_winner__3_20_2008.asp

Also, read the statement by Heller:

http://www.templetonprize.org/pdfs/heller_statement.pdf