Bach Goldberg Variations

Started by Mystery, December 03, 2007, 10:56:08 AM

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Dry Brett Kavanaugh

#440
Quote from: vers la flamme on September 13, 2020, 06:44:05 AM
You've been listening to classical music for how long, and you've just encountered this term for the first time? ;D


I deal with German philosophers in the 18-19th century at my work. For many years I thought these were stain in my books, ha ha.   :)

P.s. enjoy the violin transcriptions.

Jo498

I have at least one German book that used "Schoenberg" because this was the correct spelling when he lived in the US but it is uncommon. In any case using ae, oe, ue has been an accepted way to deal with Umlaute even within German speaking countries if one was using a typewriter without them. As in the last millenium, I think it got worse with the early computers and word processors because they were international whereas typewriters usually had ä,ö,ü. It is not pretty, but not a real error. A real but unfortunately quite common error that might seem slight but looks jarring and ugly to native readers is treating the diphthong "äu" in the wrong way, e.g. Gebaüde instead of Gebäude (building). My sister recently told me that she read an american book/dissertation in art history that supposedly was pretty highly regarded but had this error all the time. It was about the Bauhaus and there is the expression "Bauhäusler" for the artists from that school.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

aukhawk

#442
The Academie Francaise (my misspelling deliberate) - the arbiter of French language practice - has repeatedly tried to remove accents from many French words, and especially things like place names in capitals (as on road signs) - since 1990 - but with very limited success so far.  I like to do my bit to help progress, and never use accents or diacritics in any written language.

André

Accents are there for a reason. Ignore it at your peril if you attempt to speak a language and don't know what sound should be produced  ;).

Jo498

Ignoring these things seems casual anglophone cultural imperialism, paired with laziness and therefore successful and broadly accepted.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

André

It's not that bad  :D . More like the simple fact that the English language has strange rules for the pronunciation of vowels (not really rules, rather a set of received usages). An i, an o, an e etc can be pronounced differently without rhyme nor reason. For example: finite, infinite. Or to, go, for : 3 different sounds for the vowel o. Although not foolproof, accents guide the speaker to pronounce vowels in a uniform way.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: André on September 15, 2020, 11:14:13 AM
It's not that bad  :D . More like the simple fact that the English language has strange rules for the pronunciation of vowels (not really rules, rather a set of received usages). An i, an o, an e etc can be pronounced differently without rhyme nor reason. For example: finite, infinite. Or to, go, for : 3 different sounds for the vowel o. Although not foolproof, accents guide the speaker to pronounce vowels in a uniform way.

Since English has very few letters, the letters must function for plural sounds. Plus words must share different meanings, ie. Fine. Also the language is a mixture of Latin and Germanic languages. Once, George Bernard Shaw said that you can write "GHOTI" and pronounce "fish." I think Japanese and very few languages today maintain (nearly) phonetic scripts- one letter exclusively indicating one sound. That would necessitate a larger number of letters.

Old San Antone

Revisiting this classic recording


Old San Antone

Quote from: Old San Antone on September 15, 2020, 03:34:11 PM
Revisiting this classic recording



Amazing performance.  Variation 20, e.g., is staggeringly fine.

Florestan

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on September 15, 2020, 01:56:26 PM
Since English has very few letters, the letters must function for plural sounds. Plus words must share different meanings, ie. Fine. Also the language is a mixture of Latin and Germanic languages. Once, George Bernard Shaw said that you can write "GHOTI" and pronounce "fish." I think Japanese and very few languages today maintain (nearly) phonetic scripts- one letter exclusively indicating one sound. That would necessitate a larger number of letters.

I'm sorry but that's simply not true. Romanian has a phonetic orthography and uses exactly the same 26 letters of the English alphabet, plus 5 with diacritics.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Florestan

Quote from: André on September 15, 2020, 09:36:01 AM
Accents are there for a reason. Ignore it at your peril if you attempt to speak a language and don't know what sound should be produced  ;).

Not to mention that in Romanian the same word can have very different meanings if written with or without diacritics.  :D
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Handelian

Quote from: Old San Antone on September 15, 2020, 03:51:34 PM
Amazing performance.  Variation 20, e.g., is staggeringly fine.

Introduced me to Bach on piano. Sold millions. Classic!

Selig

Albert-Jan Roelofs is experimenting (or not) with tempo on this new disc. Essentially his concept is to play "tempo ordinario" unless told otherwise--he doesn't even slow down for Var. 13!

He talks about it here
https://albertjanroelofs.com/en/lecture-en/

[asin]B095HN8RLT[/asin]

Mandryka

Quote from: Selig on August 06, 2021, 09:42:47 AM
Albert-Jan Roelofs is experimenting (or not) with tempo on this new disc. Essentially his concept is to play "tempo ordinario" unless told otherwise--he doesn't even slow down for Var. 13!

He talks about it here
https://albertjanroelofs.com/en/lecture-en/

[asin]B095HN8RLT[/asin]

Egarr is interesting on tempo, from Para 8

https://www.harmoniamundi.com/__media/document/4226/txt7425.pdf

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Spotted Horses

If I've listened to a lot of Goldberg Variations recordings, I don't remember them.

I like Angela Hewitt's first recording, and Andras Schiff's ECM recording. I will reveal myself as a complete cretin by admitting I like Wilhelm Kempff's recording. I also like the Trio Zimmerman recording as well as the Leopold Trio's recording of the same Sitovetski arrangement. I haven't managed to find a favorite recording on Harpsichord, although I know I should prefer that. From sampling, Rubsam's recording on lute harpsichord is attractive but I have not had time to make my way through it.

Pavel Kolesnikov has recently caught my attention.


There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Karl Henning

I've been listening to Beth Levin's recording. Not sure how I'd rank it, as I do not feel that ranking Goldbergs is my bag, but I like it much better than the snarky review on Amazon.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Selig

Quote from: Spotted Horses on August 07, 2021, 05:34:13 PM
If I've listened to a lot of Goldberg Variations recordings, I don't remember them.

I like Angela Hewitt's first recording, and Andras Schiff's ECM recording. I will reveal myself as a complete cretin by admitting I like Wilhelm Kempff's recording. I also like the Trio Zimmerman recording as well as the Leopold Trio's recording of the same Sitovetski arrangement. I haven't managed to find a favorite recording on Harpsichord, although I know I should prefer that. From sampling, Rubsam's recording on lute harpsichord is attractive but I have not had time to make my way through it.

Pavel Kolesnikov has recently caught my attention.

What have you tried? Maybe try Egarr who was mentioned above, his recording is very special.

For me it's the other way around. I don't like any pianist in this work all that much, except maybe Nikolayeva.

Spotted Horses

Quote from: Selig on August 09, 2021, 12:15:57 AM
What have you tried? Maybe try Egarr who was mentioned above, his recording is very special.

For me it's the other way around. I don't like any pianist in this work all that much, except maybe Nikolayeva.

Trevor Pinnock (Archiv) Maggie Cole (Virgin) Leonhardt (Teldec). My lack of ability to appreciate harpsichord mainly comes for all of the failed attempts to enjoy the WTC on harpsichord. There I've heard numerous recordings, most of which I don't remember, no doubt. Bob van Asperin, Leonhardt (DHM) Glen Wilson, Gary Cooper. I once had the now out-of-print Kirkpatrick set of Archiv, and now regret selling off.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

milk

Quote from: Spotted Horses on August 09, 2021, 02:16:49 AM
Trevor Pinnock (Archiv) Maggie Cole (Virgin) Leonhardt (Teldec). My lack of ability to appreciate harpsichord mainly comes for all of the failed attempts to enjoy the WTC on harpsichord. There I've heard numerous recordings, most of which I don't remember, no doubt. Bob van Asperin, Leonhardt (DHM) Glen Wilson, Gary Cooper. I once had the now out-of-print Kirkpatrick set of Archiv, and now regret selling off.
I feel the opposite way. I'll keep trying for piano though. There's room for us all I guess. There are so many exciting harpsichord versions IMO whereas pianists often seem to have predilections and instincts that rub me the wrong way. 

Spotted Horses

Quote from: milk on August 09, 2021, 06:29:47 AM
I feel the opposite way. I'll keep trying for piano though. There's room for us all I guess. There are so many exciting harpsichord versions IMO whereas pianists often seem to have predilections and instincts that rub me the wrong way.

It is not lost on me that the music was written for harpsichord and when I start listening I often feel, "this is how it is supposed to sound." My issue is that after 5 minutes the sound of the instrument grates on me so badly that I have to stop.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington