Bach Goldberg Variations

Started by Mystery, December 03, 2007, 10:56:08 AM

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Que

Quote from: amw on December 24, 2016, 03:09:32 PM
Nothing against slow in principle, but often when it is played slowly I get the feeling of wanting a more well-defined dance rhythm, at least. Some of the variations come across as a bit lumbering. I guess I'm talking less about speed and more about lightness.

I'll give Asperen a go. I definitely enjoy his WTC. Egarr's still on the list for when I have the 85 minutes to spare <_<

I might have a few suggestions to confuse you..... :D

Ottavio Dantone  (Italian Decca) and wild(card) Fabio Bonizzoni (Glossa).

Q

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on December 24, 2016, 10:47:59 PM
This isn't dance. It's just perverse to demand dancable rhythms.

Amen.

Quote from: Mandryka
What I appreciate about Egarr's is:

1 The sense of improvisation
2 The variety, each variation has its own personality
3 The general style which seems to almost hark back to the 15th century
4 The harpsichord sound, and the tuning
5 The originality, the challenge of the new ideas

I have resisted Egarr's Goldbergs until now, but it seems as if I need to get them. :)

Quote from: Mandryka on December 24, 2016, 10:47:59 PM
I think Gould 1 had a major influence on expectations of speed, an influence on harpsichordist as much as pianists. The way he bolts out the first variation for example has become a sort of established performance practice since.

I doubt that Gould has been the benchmark for that many harpsichorsdists who have chosen a fast pace for the Goldbergs or anything else by Bach.  Already Walcha played some of the variations very fast, and he was maybe even more his own than Gould.
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amw

Quote from: Mandryka on December 24, 2016, 01:09:22 PM
By the way, people who come to this from a piano background often want speed because of the influence of Glen Gould, who really bolted out of the stables in the first variation in 1955. There's no reason to play it like that.
I've heard Gould but didn't get along with it much. Possibly for the same reasons I didn't enjoy Walcha, actually. I'm from a piano background, but András Schiff (2001).

Listened to about half of Asperen and it does seem more or less like what I was looking for. Egarr's next tho. Can't trial Dantone without committing an act of immoral and reprehensible piracy (who am I kidding, I just don't feel like waiting for an active seeder <_<) but also taken under consideration.

Mandryka

#223
Quote from: Mandryka on December 24, 2016, 10:47:59 PM

What I appreciate about Egarr's is:

1 The sense of improvisation
2 The variety, each variation has its own personality
3 The general style which seems to almost hark back to the 15th century
4 The harpsichord sound, and the tuning
5 The originality, the challenge of the new ideas


Should have 16th century, or maybe 17th!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

stingo


Kontrapunctus

While I prefer it on the piano, this version is quite good. Excellent sound, too.


Marc

What do the connaisseurs think of Virginia Black's recording on the former Collins label?
I always feel refreshed after listening to this one.

(And, for those interested: I'm quite sure she takes every repeat.)



https://www.amazon.com/J-s-Bach-Goldberg-Variations-Virginia/dp/B000088NUC/?tag=goodmusicguideco

amw

Egarr today

+
Instrument
Tuning
very introspective, playing as though for himself alone
good use of ornaments
high quality rubato, A+
variation 25 is an infinite abyss in the guise of an opera seria cavatina

-
it doesn't sound like he is having any fun—not as heavy as I thought, but extremely serious, like the fate of the world depends on the Quodlibet
feels like there is very little contrast between the variations
sense of improvisation maybe goes too far, in that i don't feel like he sets out a large-scale trajectory from aria to da capo

It's perfectly good but I can't exactly put it in the top tier of Goldbergs. To be fair this applies for me with most everything Egarr has recorded. :/

subjective ofc.

A kind individual who will remain unnamed for legal reasons has supplied a copy of the Dantone recording so that's up next on the agenda.

Mandryka

Quote from: amw on December 27, 2016, 02:17:14 PM
Egarr today


-
it doesn't sound like he is having any fun—not as heavy as I thought, but extremely serious, like the fate of the world depends on the Quodlibet
feels like there is very little contrast between the variations
sense of improvisation maybe goes too far, in that i don't feel like he sets out a large-scale trajectory from aria to da capo



I don't agree about the thought that there's little contrast, I agree that he plays it like a sequence of etudes.

By the way the sound on spotify is not anywhere near as good as the sound on the CD.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

amw

Not even etudes, he plays it like it's the Sonatas and Interludes. Or Musica Callada. I guess that's what I mean by lack of contrast.

The music was streamed through my computer speakers, which are the great equalizer in terms of sound quality, but I'm guessing it's good. Harmonia Mundi after all.

bioluminescentsquid

#230
Found this in a record shop, and since it was cheap (4 dollars),  and I generally like Rousset, I decided to see how this sounded.



Not very impressed, I must say. Bland and without much features, and a bit superficial (some movements, like the Arias, 21, or the "black pearl" are just too fast for my taste. Hopefully it opens up with a few more listens, but this is my 5th spin, and it hasn't worked much magic yet.

It seems like Rousset was aiming for "lyrical," but it, unlike e.g. Rannou, misses the mark.

Kontrapunctus

This one played on the piano is wonderful, too.


Que

Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 19, 2017, 09:01:22 PM
Found this in a record shop, and since it was cheap (4 dollars),  and I generally like Rousset, I decided to see how this sounded.



Not very impressed, I must say. Bland and without much features, and a bit superficial (some movements, like the Arias, 21, or the "black pearl" are just too fast for my taste. Hopefully it opens up with a few more listens, but this is my 5th spin, and it hasn't worked much magic yet.

It seems like Rousset was aiming for "lyrical," but it, unlike e.g. Rannou, misses the mark.

I like it! :) A "young man's" Golbergs for sure - love to hear his 2nd take any time soon...I hope...

Q

bioluminescentsquid

Quote from: Que on February 27, 2017, 01:20:37 PM
I like it! :) A "young man's" Golbergs for sure - love to hear his 2nd take any time soon...I hope...

Q
Tell me why you like it. I'm still trying to get myself to like it.

Que

#234
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on February 27, 2017, 02:33:41 PM
Tell me why you like it. I'm still trying to get myself to like it.

I wouldn't dare or want to try to talk you into it!   :D If it doesn't click, it doesn't click...

Rousset is a speeder, always has been. Though he seems to mellow/slow down now he is getter older...
The most obvious case in point are his recordings of the French and English Suites on Ambroisie, which made fellow harpsichordist Peter Watchorn remark (approx.): "Thank you, Mr. Rousset. For demonstrating how fast these pieces can be played."
I guess for Rousset' genius musical brain which has thoroughly absorbed the music, the speed feels completely natural.
For us ordinary mortal souls,  keeping up with the complexity of the music is a challenge at such speeds. Being familiar with the music certainly helps, though it always takes me a few minutes adapt.

But being able to keep up doesn't account for taste and doesn't mean you like it. :)
For me the rewards are the liveliness, the virtuosity and elegance, the way he builds tension, thh brillisnt ornamentations. And it is not all blazing virtuosity that catches the eye: Rousset is a great analyser and offers profundity as well. Though not often the "meditative" kind, some tend to associate with Bach.
Rousset shows Bach the virtuosic musical genius, which in my mind he was  - particularly behind the keyboard.

A more moderated approach in the same mould would be Céline Frisch (Alpha), for instance  (my knowledge of what is out there is getting outdated...)
Pretty recording...

Q

Que

Anyway...I just spottted this...

Presumably a reissue from the Bach Edition? Any good? :)

[asin]B01NADFYGD[/asin]
Q

Marc

Quote from: Que on February 28, 2017, 10:20:23 PM
Anyway...I just spottted this...

Presumably a reissue from the Bach Edition? Any good? :)

[asin]B01NADFYGD[/asin]
Q

This one is recorded in 2015, so it's a new release.
It's his 3rd recording of BWV 988, after Erasmus 1991 and Brilliant 1999 (for the Bach Edition).

bioluminescentsquid

Quote from: Que on February 28, 2017, 10:15:04 PM
I wouldn't dare or want to try to talk you into it!   :D If it doesn't click, it doesn't click...

Rousset is a speeder, always has been. Though he seems to mellow/slow down now he is getter older...
The most obvious case in point are his recordings of the French and English Suites on Ambroisie, which made fellow harpsichordist Peter Watchorn remark (approx.): "Thank you, Mr. Rousset. For demonstrating how fast these pieces can be played."
I guess for Rousset' genius musical brain which has thoroughly absorbed the music, the speed feels completely natural.
For us ordinary mortal souls,  keeping up with the complexity of the music is a challenge at such speeds. Being familiar with the music certainly helps, though it always takes me a few minutes adapt.

But being able to keep up doesn't account for taste and doesn't mean you like it. :)
For me the rewards are the liveliness, the virtuosity and elegance, the way he builds tension, thh brillisnt ornamentations. And it is not all blazing virtuosity that catches the eye: Rousset is a great analyser and offers profundity as well. Though not often the "meditative" kind, some tend to associate with Bach.
Rousset shows Bach the virtuosic musical genius, which in my mind he was  - particularly behind the keyboard.

A more moderated approach in the same mould would be Céline Frisch (Alpha), for instance  (my knowledge of what is out there is getting outdated...)
Pretty recording...

Q

This is my 7th spin, and I think I'm starting to get it....?

premont

Quote from: Que on February 28, 2017, 10:15:04 PM
I wouldn't dare or want to try to talk you into it!   :D If it doesn't click, it doesn't click...

Rousset is a speeder, always has been. Though he seems to mellow/slow down now he is getter older...
The most obvious case in point are his recordings of the French and English Suites on Ambroisie, which made fellow harpsichordist Peter Watchorn remark (approx.): "Thank you, Mr. Rousset. For demonstrating how fast these pieces can be played."
I guess for Rousset' genius musical brain which has thoroughly absorbed the music, the speed feels completely natural.
For us ordinary mortal souls,  keeping up with the complexity of the music is a challenge at such speeds. Being familiar with the music certainly helps, though it always takes me a few minutes adapt.

But being able to keep up doesn't account for taste and doesn't mean you like it. :)
For me the rewards are the liveliness, the virtuosity and elegance, the way he builds tension, thh brillisnt ornamentations. And it is not all blazing virtuosity that catches the eye: Rousset is a great analyser and offers profundity as well. Though not often the "meditative" kind, some tend to associate with Bach.
Rousset shows Bach the virtuosic musical genius, which in my mind he was  - particularly behind the keyboard.

A more moderated approach in the same mould would be Céline Frisch (Alpha), for instance  (my knowledge of what is out there is getting outdated...)
Pretty recording...

Q

Great post, Que.  :)
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Mandryka

#239


Richard Lester plays the Goldberg Variations, with gentility, sobriety and care. He takes every repeat identically. Long singing phrasing. My feeling is that he is at pains to bring out the large scale structure of the set. And my impression is that what he's doing is extremely beautiful in a galant way. Sweet small (8') German style harpsichord (Colin Booth after Johann Christoph Fleischer in Berlin.) This may well be a recording which will repay repeated listening.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen