Béla Bartók (1881-1945)

[vers la flamme]

Happy birthday to a great composer. If I'd have known sooner I'd have listened to a lot more of his music. I'll try and get a couple of pieces in, though, and maybe a few tomorrow.

Right now, listening to the Hungarian Sketches for orchestra, w/ Fritz Reiner conducting. This is one of Bartók's most lighthearted works. It almost reminds me of certain English composers, a Delius or a Butterworth or some such. It has that kind of pastoral feel...

[vers la flamme]

Is there anyone else here who just can't get down with the CfO? I have tried it time and time again but I just don't find it engaging in any way, I'm sorry to say. I just listened now to the Reiner/Chicago and enjoyed it more than usual, though!

[Daverz]

Is there anyone else here who just can't get down with the CfO? I have tried it time and time again but I just don't find it engaging in any way, I'm sorry to say. I just listened now to the Reiner/Chicago and enjoyed it more than usual, though!

It's meant to be a showpiece.  I don't think there's any hidden depths in it.  Perhaps you expecting too much, and this is causing you to miss what the piece has to offer.

[pjme]

  I don't think there's any hidden depths in it. 

For Bartók the work makes a gradual transition from the "severity of the first movement to the song of death in the third, and a reassertion of life in the finale."

[vers la flamme]

I'm listening to the second Violin Concerto for the first time. Wow, this has to be one of Bartók's best pieces. I love the atmospheric, yet driving, rhapsodic quality of the first movement. Parts of it remind me of the Sibelius VC, parts remind me of later composers like Lutoslawski, but really it sounds totally unique. I haven't had such an instant connection with any of Bartók's works other than Bluebeard. This is a later work, but I think it deserves a name among his biggest achievements.

Any fans of the work here? Anyone listening lately?

The beginning of the slow movement almost reminds me of Mahler's Adagietto. Kind of interesting... 

[Mahlerian]

I think the Second Violin Concerto is seen as marking a trend towards a simpler surface in Bartók's music. It certainly uses more openly triadic sonorities than the middle string quartets, for example, or the first two piano concertos. Personally, I didn't really take to the work at first myself, and only came around to it later after hearing a few different recordings, though I do now think it's one of the composer's great works.

Bartók made some comment about how he wanted to show Schoenberg that one could use all 12 tones and remain tonal in regards to one of the themes. It's strange that he didn't know that Schoenberg didn't think of his own music as atonal; it was just a label that others applied to him (which also makes it strange that people use this as a way of "proving" that Bartók's music is really tonal).

I hadn't noticed any similarity between the Mahler and the slow movement of the Bartók, but they do both begin with harp and strings filling in the upper minor third of a major chord before completing the triad, though Mahler characteristically holds out the tension and implies the minor for much longer.

A great work in any event.

[71 dB]

Althou it started in the David Hurwitz thread, I take things over here. I checked out the Violin Concertos (Naxos on Spotify).

Nice stuff. They did not sound as "Bartókian" as I expected. Quite a lot of lyricism to my surprise. 

[Mirror Image]

Althou it started in the David Hurwitz thread, I take things over here. I checked out the Violin Concertos (Naxos on Spotify).

Nice stuff. They did not sound as "Bartókian" as I expected. Quite a lot of lyricism to my surprise. 

You'll find that in many of his orchestral works that there is a surprising number of moments of lyricism, but don't get too comfortable with this as it doesn't last too long. Bartók is a composer that seems to divide many listeners as evidenced on this very forum. If you like solo piano music, then give a listen to Out of Doors as this is probably one of his most well-known works for piano and it's a marvelous piece. This work will ease you into the other works written for solo piano. I'm not sure how you feel about opera, but Bluebeard's Castle is an astounding work and a masterpiece, IMHO. What I like about it is there really isn't a lot to keep up with plot wise nor are there numerous characters. It's an opera of two unless you count the opening narration, which only acts as an introduction. Many recordings omit this prologue as it doesn't really have anything to do with the music itself. I would also highly recommend the chamber works. If you haven't heard his cycle of six SQs, then please do so. There's a reason they're some of the most oft-recorded SQs of the 20th Century. The ballet The Miraculous Mandarin is another long-time favorite. I can't think of anything else in the ballet repertoire that really sounds like it. Even Le sacre sounds coherent by comparison. I've loved this work for years. I'm less keen on The Wooden Prince, but it does have some good moments. I think it goes on a bit too long for its own good. It's actually been awhile since I've listened to this ballet. One of my absolute favorite orchestral works from Bartók is the Divertimento for strings. What a piece! The more urgent a conductor is in this work, the better I like it so, if you want, check out the Solti/Chicago SO recording. I love all of the concerti, although I have a bit of ambivalence about the Viola Concerto. Okay, so I think you've got enough to digest right now.

[71 dB]

You'll find that in many of his orchestral works that there is a surprising number of moments of lyricism, but don't get too comfortable with this as it doesn't last too long. Bartók is a composer that seems to divide many listeners as evidenced on this very forum. If you like solo piano music, then give a listen to Out of Doors as this is probably one of his most well-known works for piano and it's a marvelous piece. This work will ease you into the other works written for solo piano. I'm not sure how you feel about opera, but Bluebeard's Castle is an astounding work and a masterpiece, IMHO. What I like about it is there really isn't a lot to keep up with plot wise nor are there numerous characters. It's an opera of two unless you could the opening narration, which only acts as an introduction. Many recordings omit this prologue as it doesn't really have anything to do with music itself. I would also highly recommend the chamber works. If you haven't heard his cycle of six SQs, then please do so. There's a reason they're some of the most oft-recorded SQs of the 20th Century. The ballet The Miraculous Mandarin is another long-time favorite. I can't think of anything else in the ballet repertoire that really sounds like it. Even Le sacre sounds coherent by comparison. I've loved this work for years. I'm less keen on The Wooden Prince, but it does have some good moments. I think it goes on a bit too long for its own good. It's actually been awhile since I've listened to this ballet. One of my absolute favorite orchestral works from Bartók is the Divertimento for strings. What a piece! The more urgent in this work, the better I like it, so, if you want, check out the Solti/Chicago SO recording. I love all of the concerti, although I have a bit of ambivalence about the Viola Concerto. Okay, so I think you've got enough to digest right now.

Yeah, enough, thanks. No hurry. I started Bluebeard's Castle, but after 10 minutes of so I stopped. Too much too fast... ...not an opera nut anyway.

[Mirror Image]

Yeah, enough, thanks. No hurry. I started Bluebeard's Castle, but after 10 minutes of so I stopped. Too much too fast... ...not an opera nut anyway.

You're welcome. I'm not an opera fan either, but I love Bluebeard. If you can slog through Elgar's oratorios, you shouldn't have a problem with this work.

[71 dB]

You're welcome. I'm not an opera fan either, but I love Bluebeard. If you can slog through Elgar's oratorios, you shouldn't have a problem with this work.

It's not so much about "slogging through" and more about how many hours of new music can I take in within a few hours. I was also watching Snooker on tv (Judd Trump vs Ronnie O'Sullivan) so it was multitasking anyway.

Elgar is my FAVORITE composer so his oratorios are absolute gold for me. Bartók hardly even gets to my top 10, but he is one of those composer I might like to occationally listen to for a change and I also want to simply know his output better.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Althou it started in the David Hurwitz thread, I take things over here. I checked out the Violin Concertos (Naxos on Spotify).

Nice stuff. They did not sound as "Bartókian" as I expected. Quite a lot of lyricism to my surprise. 

There was a live version on youtube that someone pointed out to me years ago which was amazing.  It was with Chung and I want to say her brother conducting; alas it was never released on CD.  She is an amazing interpreter of Bartok. 

PD

[staxomega]

Althou it started in the David Hurwitz thread, I take things over here. I checked out the Violin Concertos (Naxos on Spotify).

Nice stuff. They did not sound as "Bartókian" as I expected. Quite a lot of lyricism to my surprise. 

There is plenty of lyricism in Bartok's music, I think he is written off when someone jumps straight in by listening to something like his later string quartets, maybe given as a recommendation based on how supremely exceptional they are but not the place to start for someone that isn't well into this style.

Here is one of my favorite works from him, the 15 Hungarian Peasant Songs, nice that Youtube has this as Annie Fischer is also my favorite performer of it:

https://www.youtube.com/v/HhxEmYJkz8Y

[staxomega]

Rounding out 2020, a great Bartok year for me... better than Beethoven . Takacs' first recording of the string quartets now making my favorite cycles (Takacs II would be ranked in the middle to second half). Along with Andor Foldes DG box with some of the best Bartok solo keyboard performances I've ever heard. Gyorgy Sandor not new to me, just a nice upgrade in sound quality from some of the older CDs I had.

[71 dB]

Okay, finished Bluebeard's Castle.  Can't say it is for me. I was underwhelmed as much I am with Janacek's Glagolitic Mass wondering what exactly is the greatness people hear in these works. So far the Piano and Violin Concertos have worked the best for me. Violin Concertos especially worked better for me than I anticipated.

[pjme]

Okay, finished Bluebeard's Castle.  Can't say it is for me.
....wondering what exactly is the greatness people hear in these works...

So be it and don't worry. fair enough. ..."des goûts et des couleurs"... etc, etc. That should be clear to you by now?

I love both works immensely: grandeur combined with fervour, mystery and/or "earthy" religiosity. Both the mass and the fairy tale are a "mysterium fascinosum" ("mystery that attracts"), by which humans are irresistibly drawn to the glory, beauty, adorable quality, and the blessing, redeeming, and salvation-bringing power....( source Brittanica). There's no kitsch, floaty sentimentality, bluff...just superb music.

[Mirror Image]

Okay, finished Bluebeard's Castle.  Can't say it is for me. I was underwhelmed as much I am with Janacek's Glagolitic Mass wondering what exactly is the greatness people hear in these works. So far the Piano and Violin Concertos have worked the best for me. Violin Concertos especially worked better for me than I anticipated.

I'm wondering what the greatness you hear in those overblown Elgar oratorios, too. It boils down to this: some people like it, some people don't. At least you listened, so that's an important first-step in understanding a piece of music of any kind. Oh and Janáček's Glagolitic Mass is an incredible piece. For this listener, it was love on first-listen.

[71 dB]

I'm wondering what the greatness you hear in those overblown Elgar oratorios, too. It boils down to this: some people like it, some people don't. At least you listened, so that's an important first-step in understanding a piece of music of any kind. Oh and Janáček's Glagolitic Mass is an incredible piece. For this listener, it was love on first-listen.

I like the orchestral colors Elgar uses and how he makes the thematic material "dance" in a multidimensional way (different sounds affect each other in several musical dimensions: Harmony, melody, timbre, rhyhtm, etc.) I love how Elgar throws in suddenly sounds that are surprising and propriate at the same time. It's like combining colors in a clever way. It all just sounds so damn awesome to my ears. Of Elgar's oratorios Gerontius is the easiest to enjoy because it presents it's greatness in a direct manner, but I consider the Apostles and the Kingdom even greater works and much more demanding for the listener. 

Yeah, I am listening to Bartók and getting a better grasp of how much Bartók is to my liking overall and which works by him are to my taste. You never know before you listen. Sometimes you discover awesome works when you least expect it... 

[Mirror Image]

I like the orchestral colors Elgar uses and how he makes the thematic material "dance" in a multidimensional way (different sounds affect each other in several musical dimensions: Harmony, melody, timbre, rhyhtm, etc.) I love how Elgar throws in suddenly sounds that are surprising and propriate at the same time. It's like combining colors in a clever way. It all just sounds so damn awesome to my ears. Of Elgar's oratorios Gerontius is the easiest to enjoy because it presents it's greatness in a direct manner, but I consider the Apostles and the Kingdom even greater works and much more demanding for the listener. 

Yeah, I am listening to Bartók and getting a better grasp of how much Bartók is to my liking overall and which works by him are to my taste. You never know before you listen. Sometimes you discover awesome works when you least expect it... 

Not to turn this into an Elgar thread, but I do like much of Elgar's music. I think his Violin Concerto for example is one of the finest Late-Romantic concerti in the repertoire. I'm less keen on the Cello Concerto, but it might do me some good to revisit this work. Sea Pictures is a work I've always greatly admired. The 2nd symphony is also sublime --- that Larghetto movement never fails to move me. The Violin Sonata is remarkable, too. I understand the Elgarian 'pathos' rather well. Those mood swings and the introspection do not go unnoticed by me at all. I guarantee you that I'm more of an Elgarian than many other members here. I like his music and even though I don't listen to it as much as I have in the past, doesn't mean I don't like the composer. There's always a possibility to rediscover music from your past that has touched you in some way or another that makes you feel what you felt when you were really into this composer's music. I need to get back into Elgar and Vaughan Williams as I consider these two of the finest composers to come out of England (next to Britten).

[aukhawk]

... I love all of the concerti, ...

Just not the Concerto for Orchestra, which I always hear as something of a musical blunt instrument.