Béla Bartók (1881-1945)

Mandryka · February 01, 2023, 12:40:03 PM

Yes @Herman , it was that sort of thought which made me explain my post 563 with post 564. I don't want to evaluate anything - if I did I think i would try to revise it - I just want to say what sort of thing Bartok's music is, in the sense of how it relates to what happened to classical music subsequently. He may have written dated music, but it could still be very good dated music!

I'm trying to think about Busoni in the same way, by the way.

Skogwald · February 06, 2023, 11:16:30 PM

Dave Hurwitz' new video alerted me to the piece Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion, which he claims is Bartok's most characteristic piece. I was wondering what you guys think is the best recording of that piece?

Daverz · February 06, 2023, 11:48:59 PM

Quote from: Skogwald on February 06, 2023, 11:16:30 PMDave Hurwitz' new video alerted me to the piece Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion, which he claims is Bartok's most characteristic piece. I was wondering what you guys think is the best recording of that piece?

Hurwitz has a video on that:

Spoiler: his choice is Argerich and Freire on DG. (Argerich also recorded it earlier with Kovacevich on Philips.)

pjme · February 07, 2023, 02:13:26 AM

Quote from: Skogwald on February 06, 2023, 11:16:30 PMDave Hurwitz' new video alerted me to the piece Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion, which he claims is Bartok's most characteristic piece. I was wondering what you guys think is the best recording of that piece?

I sincerely hope you will explore Bartoks musical world beyond the Sonata! I have the Argerich/Kovacevich (ca 1984) with percussionists Michael De Roo and Willy Goudswaard - still sounds very good.
There are several more recent recordings ( Cedric Tiberghien, Francois-Frederic Guy, Colin Currie, Sam Walton - Pascal Roge, Ami Roge, Paul Clarvis, Joby Burgess - Mrongovius, Uriarte, Gschwendtner, Peinkofer....) with more or less interesting couplings.

Todd · February 07, 2023, 07:42:05 AM

Quote from: Skogwald on February 06, 2023, 11:16:30 PMDave Hurwitz' new video alerted me to the piece Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion, which he claims is Bartok's most characteristic piece. I was wondering what you guys think is the best recording of that piece?

or

Push comes to shove, Argerich/Freire.

joachim · February 07, 2023, 07:53:09 AM

Personally, for the music of Bela Bartok, I have mixed feelings: there are works that I really like, for example the concerto for orchestra, the rhapsodies for violin, the Mandarin Miraculous or The Blubeard's Castle. On the other hand, I don't like the 6 string quartets, which I find too "modern". Among the quartets, my favorite is that of youth, the number "0" in F major!

Daverz · February 07, 2023, 04:16:39 PM

Quote from: joachim on February 07, 2023, 07:53:09 AMPersonally, for the music of Bela Bartok, I have mixed feelings: there are works that I really like, for example the concerto for orchestra, the rhapsodies for violin, the Mandarin Miraculous or The Blubeard's Castle. On the other hand, I don't like the 6 string quartets, which I find too "modern". Among the quartets, my favorite is that of youth, the number "0" in F major!

Yeah, I still find the quartets difficult after 40 years. The first two are quite chromatic. 3 & 4 are "easier" because they are more concerned with rhythm. 5 seems more enigmatic again. By the time he wrote 6 he seemed to be mellowing a bit.

Irons · February 07, 2023, 11:47:04 PM

Quote from: Daverz on February 07, 2023, 04:16:39 PMYeah, I still find the quartets difficult after 40 years. The first two are quite chromatic. 3 & 4 are "easier" because they are more concerned with rhythm. 5 seems more enigmatic again. By the time he wrote 6 he seemed to be mellowing a bit.

Ditto piano concertos. Third less aggressive then preceding two.

Try to get on with the quartets but only the 4th I really enjoy.

Mandryka · February 08, 2023, 12:23:06 AM

Quote from: Daverz on February 07, 2023, 04:16:39 PMYeah, I still find the quartets difficult after 40 years. The first two are quite chromatic. 3 & 4 are "easier" because they are more concerned with rhythm. 5 seems more enigmatic again. By the time he wrote 6 he seemed to be mellowing a bit.

I don't know the first two at all, but for me, out of 3 - 6, 6 is the hardest to enjoy, mellower or not. Of course, I may not be a very mellow person!

Jo498 · February 08, 2023, 07:43:42 AM

I am not that fond of #6 either, I might even prefer 1 and 2 to #6, in any case the central 3,4,5 seem a notch above the rest. The pieces might not be comparable but of the lateish "mellow" works I prefer the divertimento, concerto for orchestra, 3rd piano concerto.

foxandpeng · February 09, 2023, 10:14:21 AM

I confess to feeling some level of encouragement that others find the SQs hard going. Just can't get into them at all, despite numerous attempts. After DSCH, give me Holmboe or Rosenberg all day long.

I will keep trying, obvs...

Jo498 · February 10, 2023, 07:11:40 AM

Quote from: Mandryka on January 27, 2023, 07:59:18 AMI wonder if you're confusing Varèse's later music with the stuff from the stipulated period - I was thinking really of Amériques.

Hard to say whether Bartok's stuff can compete with the most popular classical music from the period, because the competition is stiff - The Lark Ascending, for example, and Rhapsody in Blue.

Let's put it differently. Satie clearly evokes a certain period/mood/mindset for me (obnoxious French bohème around 1900). So does Gershwin (1920s broadway shows etc.). Bartok clearly does not. Listening to (most, mature) Bartok I am never thinking of 1920s hungary or an emigré in the early 1940s or of post WW 1 this or pre WW 2 that or anything else. For me, therefore it's far more timeless than e.g. these two other examples.

Mandryka · February 10, 2023, 07:39:10 AM

Quote from: Jo498 on February 10, 2023, 07:11:40 AMLet's put it differently. Satie clearly evokes a certain period/mood/mindset for me (obnoxious French bohème around 1900). So does Gershwin (1920s broadway shows etc.). Bartok clearly does not. Listening to (most, mature) Bartok I am never thinking of 1920s hungary or an emigré in the early 1940s or of post WW 1 this or pre WW 2 that or anything else. For me, therefore it's far more timeless than e.g. these two other examples.

Do you think that Uspud, Ogives, and Sommeries de la rose croix is like other music which was being produced in France at the time, or which had been produced before?

Some of Music for Percussion Strings and Celeste always makes me think of Hollywood horror film scores!

Dry Brett Kavanaugh · February 10, 2023, 10:21:40 AM

Quote from: Jo498 on February 10, 2023, 07:11:40 AMLet's put it differently. Satie clearly evokes a certain period/mood/mindset for me (obnoxious French bohème around 1900). So does Gershwin (1920s broadway shows etc.). Bartok clearly does not. Listening to (most, mature) Bartok I am never thinking of 1920s hungary or an emigré in the early 1940s or of post WW 1 this or pre WW 2 that or anything else. For me, therefore it's far more timeless than e.g. these two other examples.

To me, Romanian Dances sounds like a Balkanian version of the caricature Tin Pan Alley.