Béla Bartók (1881-1945)

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MI, can you sum up your recommendations of Bartok and Stravinsky recordings in one post for me? Can be a valuable post for others as well.

Thanks in advance.

Henk

Oh lord....I will try Henk. This is difficult....but here goes nothing (I'm sure many will disagree here), but you did ask me to sum up my recommendations for two of my favorite composers -- a very daunting task indeed)...

For Stravinsky:

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For Bartok:

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I tried...

It pained to me to compile this list as after looking at my initial post I left so many other recordings I admire off my list.

[Mirror Image]

Yea it's such a killer piece with major teeth. I'm listening Boulez's radiant & clear DG account now. Sick.

I will have to check out the Dohnanyi. I love Dohnanyi's Webern.

I need to listen to Boulez's DG account again as I remember enjoying it a lot. One of the most astonishing things about the Dohnanyi is when it gets to that vicious Allegro section which lasts a little over two minutes. The percussion absolutely wail away in this performance and I've never heard the VPO play so aggressively in all the recordings I own with them. They actually cut loose and you can hear the string section absolutely ripping into their strings. There's noise, there's passion, this is Miraculous Mandarin totally uninhibited.

This particular recording is apart of the Decca Eloquence series now and can be purchased at budget price:

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There's also an equally dedicated performance of Stravinsky's Petrushka that sounds as fresh as ever.

[Henk]

Oh lord....I will try Henk. This is difficult....but here goes nothing (I'm sure many will disagree here), but you did ask me to sum up my recommendations for two of my favorite composers -- a very daunting task indeed)...

I tried...

It pained to me to compile this list as after looking at my initial post I left so many other recordings I admire off my list.

Thanks again, I think you forgot that Dohnanyi recording? Seems to be a strong favourite of yours.

This inspired me to start a new thread in the "Great Recordings and Reviews" section.

Henk

[Mirror Image]

Thanks again, I think you forgot that Dohnanyi recording? Seems to be a strong favourite of yours.

This inspired me to start a new thread in the "Great Recordings and Reviews" section.

Henk

You're welcome. Do you own many of these recordings?

Yes, I was in such of hurry to finish the daunting task that I knew I was forgetting to mention other recordings that I admired.

[Sid]

Thanks for that information, James. I've got the following recording which I like & think is also very good from another Hungarian pianist, Balazs Szokolay. I particularly like the Six Dances in Bulgarian Rhythm from the Mikrokosmos which concludes the disc (Gee, they sound really hard!!!). I think this kind of single disc collection is a good buy for those like me who aren't really interested in buying the big sets...

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STRING QUARTETS
Bartók's six string quartets are his greatest achievement and span his entire creative life: the first was completed in 1908, the second in 1917, the third in 1927, the fourth in 1928, the fifth in 1934 and the last in 1938. As with Beethoven, Bartók translated his deepest and most personal thoughts into his quartets, and each of the six is the purest distillation of his immersion in folk song. The two central quartets, the third and the forth, have the most astringent and difficult music, but they are also the most challenging and exciting to listen to. The third is a short, highly concentrated exercise in expressionism that teeters on the brink of atonality. Though Bartók was not a string player, he manages to create an astonishing variety of deeply anguished and mysterious sounds, culminating in the hard-driven and cathartic finale. The sections of the third's single movement structure form a palindrome; a pattern repeated in the fourth quartet, a more expansive and less introspective work. At its heart is an extraordinary slow movement, full of the wild "night sounds" of nature - rustling trees, birdsong, the movement of insects. It's followed by a short Scherzo made up of manic pizzicato strumming. The finale is one of the most disturbingly driven and dissonant works in the whole of quartet literature.

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The Emerson Quartet's award-winning recording of the complete cycle is unrivalled. The concentration, the precision, the forensic attention to detail, the rhythmic force, tension & fire. Rhythmic contortions, unexpected changes in mood and the lurking folk elements are perfectly judged and handled with complete assurance of the idiom; not to mention the wonderful up close and crystal clear recorded sound. The Emerson Quartet are completely at home in Bartók's extraordinary sound-world and this is a fabulous production.

Ah, the beauty of copy and paste.

[karlhenning]

Even when the Master's music is driven, I don't find it at all "disturbingly" so . . . exhilirating, yes.

[karlhenning]

. . . and was one of only ten people who attended Bartók's funeral in 1945.

[Mirror Image]

Time to resurrect this thread. Bartok, for me, was my entrance into the world of classical music (along with Ives). I simply took a chance on his music more than 10 years ago through Reiner's famous RCA recording. At first, I was completely turned off by Bartok's idiom, but then again, I really didn't understand the classical language much as I had been a fervent jazz fan. I put this Reiner recording aside for many years. When I became bored with jazz and looking for something new, also with encouragement from my grandfather (a devout classical fan), I pursued this recording again only to find that I could hear much music here this time around. It still sounded dissonant to me, but I pursued Bartok further with my next purchase: Boulez's DG recording of The Wooden Prince. Needless to say, I was floored and enthralled with what I heard.

Sometimes time can be a great healer. All of this stuff works in such mysterious ways. I'm glad I pursued classical music as it has been one of the most incredible musical journeys I've made. I'm indebted to Bartok for opening up my ears to what classical music had to offer.

[AllegroVivace]

....I'm indebted to Bartok for opening up my ears to what classical music had to offer.

Thanks for sharing that experience. how long ago was that? I'm curious how long it took you to start appreciating all the other music you know.

Jazz is great, but it has its limits. It's not a surprise you reached such a point and turned to classical music. Bartok must have been a rough start. Usually people are linked by Rachmaninoff, Gershwin and the like.

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Thanks for sharing that experience. how long ago was that? I'm curious how long it took you to start appreciating all the other music you know.

Jazz is great, but it has its limits. It's not a surprise you reached such a point and turned to classical music. Bartok must have been a rough start. Usually people are linked by Rachmaninoff, Gershwin and the like.

You're welcome. Bartok really made things click for me about 4 years ago even though I heard him 6 years prior. It didn't really take me too long to understand a composer like Ravel or Debussy, because I was already, in some strange way, attuned to their music through the actual harmony of it. Those minor 9ths and 11ths which are chords that I'm used to hearing in jazz music, so all I had to do is get an understanding of the classical language and the way this language applies to an orchestra instead of the big bands that I've been listening to in jazz.

I don't think my situation is all that unique, but I sought out composers that I had some kind of connection with right away. Bruckner was pretty rough going for me. It took me awhile to understand his music because of the way it was structured and the way he used repetition. When I heard Stravinsky for the first time, I understood his language very quickly. The same with R. Strauss, Villa-Lobos, and Vaughan Williams. This music just made so much sense to me. It's really hard to say why I'm attracted to the composers I'm attracted to because they're all so different, but 20th Century music is where my heart is and has been most of my life whether it's jazz, classical, or rock.

[Roberto]

...

My first Bartók experience was the Dance Suite. I've heard part of it in the Hungarian Television's conductor competition some 8 years ago. It was so familiar to me (maybe I've heard it when I was child at elementary school or something). After it I've bought my first Bartók CD:

It was easy to  take a fancy to Dance Suite. The Wooden Prince was longer piece (it was when my classical music awakening also started) but after two or three listening I liked it also. Now he is one of my favorite composer. (Ives: he is a great explorer. I know only his symphonies and some small orchestral pieces but I like these also.)

On the Reiner RCA recording: I miss the drum from the soundstage of Concerto. I don't know why it is so far on this recording.

But to begin classical music discoveries with Bartók... I don't think it would work for most people. 

Jazz: I don't like. I tried many times but nothing happened. When I am not listening to classical music I mainly prefer rock or folk music.

[Roberto]

I don't think my situation is all that unique, but I sought out composers that I had some kind of connection with right away. Bruckner was pretty rough going for me. It took me awhile to understand his music because of the way it was structured and the way he used repetition.

It is Furtwängler who bring Bruckner to me. 

[Mirror Image]

My first Bartók experience was the Dance Suite. I've heard part of it in the Hungarian Television's conductor competition some 8 years ago. It was so familiar to me (maybe I've heard it when I was child at elementary school or something). After it I've bought my first Bartók CD:



It was easy to  take a fancy to Dance Suite. The Wooden Prince was longer piece (it was when my classical music awakening also started) but after two or three listening I liked it also. Now he is one of my favorite composer. (Ives: he is a great explorer. I know only his symphonies and some small orchestral pieces but I like these also.)

On the Reiner RCA recording: I miss the drum from the soundstage of Concerto. I don't know why it is so far on this recording.

But to begin classical music discoveries with Bartók... I don't think it would work for most people. 

Jazz: I don't like. I tried many times but nothing happened. When I am not listening to classical music I mainly prefer rock or folk music.

No, I don't think starting off with Bartok would work for most people either, but I had been fascinated by this composer for years. Ives was easier listening for me as the first Ives recording I bought was with Bernstein conducting Symphony No. 2 with other works like Central Park in the Dark and The Unanswered Question. This was later DG recording.

I LOVE The Wooden Prince! The music isn't as savage as say The Miraculous Mandarin but it still sounds undeniably like Bartok.

I have been meaning to checkout those Bartok Hungaroton recordings.

[not edward]

I think sometimes it's easy to be over-conservative when considering the possible routes into classical music; I have a friend who first got into classical music through hearing Schnittke, and one through Xenakis. I guess it all depends on predisposition and previous musical experiences.

Meanwhile, to return back on topic, any views on the Fricsay Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta? This is probably my favourite Bartok work (along with the 4th quartet), but I am yet to hear a recording that fully satisfies me.

[Mirror Image]

I think sometimes it's easy to be over-conservative when considering the possible routes into classical music; I have a friend who first got into classical music through hearing Schnittke, and one through Xenakis. I guess it all depends on predisposition and previous musical experiences.

Meanwhile, to return back on topic, any views on the Fricsay Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta? This is probably my favourite Bartok work (along with the 4th quartet), but I am yet to hear a recording that fully satisfies me.

In my view, there's no wrong way to get into classical music just as long as you find a way in.

I have not heard Fricsay's Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta, but I can imagine it's good considering that Fricsay was a champion of Bartok's music having recorded all of the piano concertos with Anda, Cantata Profana, and Bluebeard's Castle.

[Roberto]

No, I don't think starting off with Bartok would work for most people either, but I had been fascinated by this composer for years. Ives was easier listening for me as the first Ives recording I bought was with Bernstein conducting Symphony No. 2 with other works like Central Park in the Dark and The Unanswered Question. This was later DG recording.

Exactly this is what I have from Ives. I love this disc!  The other is the Decca 2CD set which has all symphonies/orchestral sets with Dohnányi, Mehta, Marriner. It is good also but the 2nd on this disc doesn't come close to that Bernstein IMO.

I LOVE The Wooden Prince! The music isn't as savage as say The Miraculous Mandarin but it still sounds undeniably like Bartok.

I have been meaning to checkout those Bartok Hungaroton recordings.

I have the Wooden Prince on Hungaroton Bartók New Series SACD with Kocsis too. The first thing I realized when I listened to this recording is that the older recording has several cuts! It is in the booklet also but I didn't know these cuts until I listened the new. The cuts made by Bartók himself. The older recording has some beautiful moments which the never doesn't have. But maybe it is why I heard the older first. The best is to get both. 

[Roberto]

I think sometimes it's easy to be over-conservative when considering the possible routes into classical music; I have a friend who first got into classical music through hearing Schnittke, and one through Xenakis. I guess it all depends on predisposition and previous musical experiences.

It is interesting. I don't know. Every people different.

Meanwhile, to return back on topic, any views on the Fricsay Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta? This is probably my favourite Bartok work (along with the 4th quartet), but I am yet to hear a recording that fully satisfies me.

I have 6 recordings from Music:
- Franz Liszt Chamber Orchestra (Hungaroton CD) It was my first but now I don't like it. Boring performance and murky sound.
- Hungarian National PO/Kocsis (Hungaroton BNS SACD) It is my latest. One of the best IMO. Fiery performance, absolutely first class performers, clear sound. (I can play only the CD layer.)
- BBC PO/Boulez (Sony CD) I haven't heard yet. I've read a review about it which states it was a big mistake of Boulez.
- RIAS/Fricsay (DG CD) The second best IMO. But unfortunately it is mono so you can not enjoy the stereo effects made by the composer. 
- Chicago SO/Reiner (RCA CD) The third best. 
- Chicago SO/Kubelik (Mercury CD) Nothing special. And mono also. A little bit harsh sound.

I would suggest Reiner or Kocsis. Fricsay is for Bartók-collectors because it is mono.

[Drasko]

Meanwhile, to return back on topic, any views on the Fricsay Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta? This is probably my favourite Bartok work (along with the 4th quartet), but I am yet to hear a recording that fully satisfies me.

Studio DG recording is my favorite recording of my favorite Bartok piece, despite being mono. It's mostly on swift side, mellower than lets say Mravinsky or Reiner, but wonderfully articulated. I'd say worth checking out. I'm not familiar with recent Audite release.

Myself wouldn't mind hearing Kocsis and Ivan Fischer.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Myself wouldn't mind hearing Kocsis and Ivan Fischer.

That one's my favorite. It has that expressively "earthy" sound, owing to the Budapest musicians no doubt. And Philips couldn't have given them a better recording.