Béla Bartók (1881-1945)

Started by facehugger, April 06, 2007, 02:41:35 PM

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Scion7

Well, Bela had to be handsome and much going for him to snag his first love (that he wrote the Violin concerto Nr.1 for) - she was gorgeous.  :-)  The first movement of that concerto - which he stuffed in a drawer and was published posthumously - says it all about her and how he felt.
When, a few months before his death, Rachmaninov lamented that he no longer had the "strength and fire" to compose, friends reminded him of the Symphonic Dances, so charged with fire and strength. "Yes," he admitted. "I don't know how that happened. That was probably my last flicker."

Mandryka

#321
I've just uploaded Iva Bittova and Dorothea Kellerova's CD of the 44 Duos on symphonyshare - well worth taking if you've got an open mind. Let me know if you want me to let you have it through a PM.

I intend to put Wanda Wikomirska and Mihaly Szucs's performance there later today.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

The new erato

Quote from: Scion7 on July 18, 2014, 05:48:04 PM
Well, Bela had to be handsome and much going for him to snag his first love (that he wrote the Violin concerto Nr.1 for) - she was gorgeous.  :-)  The first movement of that concerto - which he stuffed in a drawer and was published posthumously - says it all about her and how he felt.
I'm getting Princess Leya associations here;


EigenUser

Quote from: Mandryka on September 20, 2014, 11:48:19 PM
I've just uploaded Iva Bittova and Dorothea Kellerova's CD of the 44 Duos on symphonyshare - well worth taking if you've got an open mind. Let me know if you want me to let you have it through a PM.

I intend to put Wanda Wikomirska and Mihaly Szucs's performance there later today.

This may prove to be a controversial statement, but I think that the set of 44 violin duos is among the most important work in his repertoire. No one talks about it here on GMG! To me, this is where he shares his secrets of reconciling folk music with 20C harmonies and rhythms. It is like he is saying "See? These asymmetric rhythms and biting dissonances are nothing new! These people who are often labeled as 'primitive' or 'simple' have been using these in music for hundreds of years!"

Plus, as a violinist, they are a blast to play through with friends. For instance, the Serbian Dance of book 4 is easy to play individually, but playing together is challenging -- especially toward the ending. My friend and I were working on it once a few years ago and usually fell apart at the end most of the time. It was all fun, though, and we always ended up laughing.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Mandryka

Quote from: EigenUser on September 21, 2014, 03:34:25 AM
This may prove to be a controversial statement, but I think that the set of 44 violin duos is among the most important work in his repertoire. No one talks about it here on GMG! To me, this is where he shares his secrets of reconciling folk music with 20C harmonies and rhythms. It is like he is saying "See? These asymmetric rhythms and biting dissonances are nothing new! These people who are often labeled as 'primitive' or 'simple' have been using these in music for hundreds of years!"

Plus, as a violinist, they are a blast to play through with friends. For instance, the Serbian Dance of book 4 is easy to play individually, but playing together is challenging -- especially toward the ending. My friend and I were working on it once a few years ago and usually fell apart at the end most of the time. It was all fun, though, and we always ended up laughing.

You know this juxtaposes the duos with Bartok's folk music recordings?




Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

EigenUser

Quote from: Mandryka on September 22, 2014, 07:41:41 AM
You know this juxtaposes the duos with Bartok's folk music recordings?


That's pretty cool. Kind of like the Emerson SQ 2xrecording the Mendelssohn Octet.

I've tried to do this before with a few of the 44 Duos, but it isn't easy, especially with only Garage Band and a cheap microphone.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

North Star

Quote from: EigenUser on September 22, 2014, 07:48:48 AM
That's pretty cool. Kind of like the Emerson SQ 2xrecording the Mendelssohn Octet.
Huh?
They've recorded the duos there (as a normal duo) and transcriptions of the folk song recordings. No gimmicks as far as I can tell..
"Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it." - Confucius

My photographs on Flickr

Mandryka

Quote from: North Star on September 22, 2014, 07:54:10 AM
Huh?
They've recorded the duos there (as a normal duo) and transcriptions of the folk song recordings. No gimmicks as far as I can tell..

Correct. If you want gimmicks then I can make some suggestions there. What I found interesting was just to hear what Bartok does with the folk tunes - I've ony listened casually I should say. I'm not a scholar of this.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

EigenUser

I heard Ozawa's The Miraculous Mandarin last night and was blown away. Very savage. I am already a big fan of his RoS so I don't know why I didn't seek this out earlier. Ozawa doesn't get much mention on GMG, but he was one of the first major names in conducting that I heard of.

Quote from: Mandryka on September 22, 2014, 07:41:41 AM
You know this juxtaposes the duos with Bartok's folk music recordings?


Quote from: EigenUser on September 22, 2014, 07:48:48 AM
That's pretty cool. Kind of like the Emerson SQ 2xrecording the Mendelssohn Octet.

I've tried to do this before with a few of the 44 Duos, but it isn't easy, especially with only Garage Band and a cheap microphone.
Wow, I just realized that I totally misunderstood the point of this post over a month ago. This is really cool. I heard one original field recording (on YT) and it was very interesting.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Ken B

Quote from: EigenUser on November 01, 2014, 03:02:35 AM
I heard Ozawa's The Miraculous Mandarin last night and was blown away. Very savage. I am already a big fan of his RoS so I don't know why I didn't seek this out earlier. Ozawa doesn't get much mention on GMG, but he was one of the first major names in conducting that I heard of.
Wow, I just realized that I totally misunderstood the point of this post over a month ago. This is really cool. I heard one original field recording (on YT) and it was very interesting.

Yes, I'm an Ozawa fan too.

Karl Henning

When he is (was?) in the zone, he was excellent.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: sanantonio on March 02, 2015, 11:33:23 AM
BUMP

Possibly a mistake?  Or did she record the chamber work twice?  I only know of her recording of the Sonata for Two Pianos (sans orchestra) with Stephen Kovacevich (which is included in the 2CD set pictured).  Also included in that recording is the version with orchestra, with I think Nelson Freire.

Argerich actually did record the piece twice but the first is, as you say, with Kovacevich. The second recording is on DG and is with Freire.

Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

EigenUser

Quote from: sanantonio on March 02, 2015, 11:33:23 AM
BUMP

Possibly a mistake?  Or did she record the chamber work twice?  I only know of her recording of the Sonata for Two Pianos (sans orchestra) with Stephen Kovacevich (which is included in the 2CD set pictured).  Also included in that recording is the version with orchestra, with I think Nelson Freire.
That Argerich recording of the Double Concerto is great.

I have an interesting relationship with the Bartok double.
1. I think that the ideas in the piece are brilliant in either sonata or double concerto form. Combining pianos with percussion really gives an insight on his use of the piano as a percussion instrument (which he also highly emphasized in his 'piano year' of 1926, including the Sonata for solo piano, Out of Doors, and the Piano Concerto No. 1).
2. I strongly prefer the more intimate (original) chamber setting for the first and second movements, no contest.
3. I prefer the more grandiose double concerto setting for the third movement.
4. In general, I think his orchestration is lazy. He could have done more with the orchestration. I have the score and there are so many empty measures in the orchestra part it makes you wonder why he even bothered orchestrating it in the first place.

It is probably one of my favorite Bartok pieces overall, so I am perhaps being too nit-picky.
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Moonfish

Bartók: Piano Concertos Nos 1, 2* & 3               Kovacevich/London SO/ BBC SO*/Colin Davis

Hmm, the second movement of Concerto No 2 was intriguing. However, I think I have to get used to Bartók's music... I kind of prefer when the piano is not involved in these concertos (kind of defeating the whole idea of it being a piano concerto)  and I simply want to take in the orchestra's performance on its own! Go figure! The Third Piano Concerto was definitely the one I attuned to the most. Perhaps it was more linked to the realm of romanticism and harmony than the other two?

I am now digging further into Bartók's work by serendipity so perhaps the Piano Concertos was not the best place to start? I'm glad that I finished with the 3rd concerto as it left a promising undertow in my mind. I do not really enjoy cacophony in my listening sessions and as a consequence I have avoided plenty of 20th century music. However, Bartók inspired me a few months ago with "Bluebeard's Castle" [A kékszakállú herceg vára], which I kept listening to over and over (the Sawallisch rendition). Great stuff!

I understand that the SQs are the ultimate gateway to Bartók? True?

[asin] B000SSPL12[/asin]
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Moonfish on March 28, 2015, 02:15:37 PM
I understand that the SQs are the ultimate gateway to Bartók? True?

For some of us, no. I've been trying for 40 years to get into them and have not succeeded. They are not easy going. Better to try:

The ballets (Mandarin, Wooden Prince)
Concerto for Orchestra
Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
The Violin Concertos
The Dance Suite
Hungarian Sketches
Romanian Folk Dances

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

EigenUser

Quote from: Moonfish on March 28, 2015, 02:15:37 PM
Bartók: Piano Concertos Nos 1, 2* & 3               Kovacevich/London SO/ BBC SO*/Colin Davis

Hmm, the second movement of Concerto No 2 was intriguing. However, I think I have to get used to Bartók's music... I kind of prefer when the piano is not involved in these concertos (kind of defeating the whole idea of it being a piano concerto)  and I simply want to take in the orchestra's performance on its own! Go figure! The Third Piano Concerto was definitely the one I attuned to the most. Perhaps it was more linked to the realm of romanticism and harmony than the other two?

I am now digging further into Bartók's work by serendipity so perhaps the Piano Concertos was not the best place to start? I'm glad that I finished with the 3rd concerto as it left a promising undertow in my mind. I do not really enjoy cacophony in my listening sessions and as a consequence I have avoided plenty of 20th century music. However, Bartók inspired me a few months ago with "Bluebeard's Castle" [A kékszakállú herceg vára], which I kept listening to over and over (the Sawallisch rendition). Great stuff!

I understand that the SQs are the ultimate gateway to Bartók? True?

[asin] B000SSPL12[/asin]
Perhaps if you like the slow movement of the 2nd PC you should try the Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta (in particular, the incredibly complex and foreboding fugue that opens the piece). I'd bet you'd like it.

The 2nd VC is along the lines of the 3rd PC, so try that, too. And everyone likes the Concerto for Orchestra! ;D
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Jo498

I think the 3 mvmt of "music for..." was also used in movies. It is an even stranger "soundscape" than the slow mvmt of the 2nd piano concerto.
His string quartets and violins sonatas are tough. Certainly worth it but probably better to leave them for later. For some reason I find the 4th and 5th string quartet far easier going than the first three.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

EigenUser

Quote from: Jo498 on March 28, 2015, 11:53:06 PM
I think the 3 mvmt of "music for..." was also used in movies. It is an even stranger "soundscape" than the slow mvmt of the 2nd piano concerto.
His string quartets and violins sonatas are tough. Certainly worth it but probably better to leave them for later. For some reason I find the 4th and 5th string quartet far easier going than the first three.
The 3rd movement of MSPC was used in Kubrick's The Shining quite extensively. Definitely a strange soundscape. That quiet celesta/violin melody accompanied by violin trills and glissandi gives me goosebumps. Beyond eerie. And the timpani roll/glissandi (technique invented by Bartok) is stomach-churning (in a good, creepy way -- like watching a good horror movie!). And the relentless xylophone 'clicks' that open the movement... MSPC is my favorite piece ever (literally, it would appear as No. 1 on a list for me). Has been for years.

I should say that I still don't care for the SQs (other than the 3rd one, but that one is wild!) and BB is my favorite composer. Honestly, though, just listen to the Concerto for Orchestra next if you are unsure. I highly doubt that you will have a problem with it.

I'm from the DC area and the National Symphony Orchestra loves to program the CFO. They cater to a mostly musically-conservative audience (sadly, but that's a different story), but it seems to pop up every other year or so. It is very likeable. It was my first introduction to orchestral Bartok, as well (ten years ago!).
Beethoven's Op. 133 -- A fugue so bad that even Beethoven himself called it "Grosse".

Jo498

I'd say the most accessible of the mature works are concerto for orchestra, dance suite, divertimento and the 3rd piano concerto.

MSPC took a little longer for me but it is an extremely great piece and I can easily understand that it is your favorite. Of the string quartets I'd say the 3rd is the hardest...
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Christo

#339
Quote from: Sergeant Rock on March 28, 2015, 02:55:19 PM
For some of us, no. I've been trying for 40 years to get into them and have not succeeded. They are not easy going. Better to try:

The ballets (Mandarin, Wooden Prince)
Concerto for Orchestra
Music for Strings, Percussion and Celesta
The Violin Concertos
The Dance Suite
Hungarian Sketches
Romanian Folk Dances

Sarge

Exactly my choices, too. And the piano concertos and Divertimento. Though I have nothing against the SQs either (once played the whole series for a while and still like them very much, as far as SQs go :-)).
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948