The symphony that dare not speak its name ...

[Mark]

Okay, admit it. You wouldn't have looked at this thread had its title been, 'Beethoven's Second Symphony'.

But why is that? Why is this work seemingly always overlooked - overshadowed even by the First Symphony? Why do I never see anyone here at GMG praise it, or find its name appearing in the 'What are you listening to?' thread? Is there no love for this 'poor relation' among Beethoven's Mighty Nine?

I have to confess that I find the work a little dull, sandwiched as it is between two such radiant beauties as the First and 'Eroica' Symphonies. This or may not have much or little to do with performances on record. I must have around 12-15 (I've lost count, to be frank), and the only one which sticks out in my mind is that by Masur and the Gewandhaus on Philips (or Pentatone, or Brilliant Classics, depending on which issue you own). He seems to give the symphony life and colour that I just don't hear in other performances. The closest to Masur for me - at least, in terms of enjoying this symphony, though not interpretatively - is Rattle with the VPO on EMI. Both of these recordings make me see value in the Second Symphony. But none in my collection makes me love it. The fault of the work, the recordings, or just me?

What are your thoughts on this? Who do you have, and who do love or loathe?

[head-case]

Okay, admit it. You wouldn't have looked at this thread had its title been, 'Beethoven's Second Symphony'.

But why is that? Why is this work seemingly always overlooked - overshadowed even by the First Symphony? Why do I never see anyone here at GMG praise it, or find its name appearing in the 'What are you listening to?' thread? Is there no love for this 'poor relation' among Beethoven's Mighty Nine?

I have to confess that I find the work a little dull, sandwiched as it is between two such radiant beauties as the First and 'Eroica' Symphonies. This or may not have much or little to do with performances on record. I must have around 12-15 (I've lost count, to be frank), and the only one which sticks out in my mind is that by Masur and the Gewandhaus on Philips (or Pentatone, or Brilliant Classics, depending on which issue you own). He seems to give the symphony life and colour that I just don't hear in other performances. The closest to Masur for me - at least, in terms of enjoying this symphony, though not interpretatively - is Rattle with the VPO on EMI. Both of these recordings make me see value in the Second Symphony. But none in my collection makes me love it. The fault of the work, the recordings, or just me?

What are your thoughts on this? Who do you have, and who do love or loathe?

I find the second one of Beethoven's nicer early works, and like it better than the first, the tedious third and the forth, from which I cannot call a single theme to mind.  I've never heard a recording of it that I didn't like, the two I have most recently listened to, the Karajan (probably 1963) and Haitink (LSO) are well done.

[Mark]

I find the second one of Beethoven's nicer early works, and like it better than the first, the tedious third and the forth, from which I cannot call a single theme to mind.  I've never heard a recording of it that I didn't like, the two I have most recently listened to, the Karajan (probably 1963) and Haitink (LSO) are well done.

Interesting comments, thanks.

Particularly challenging is your opinion that the Third and Fourth Symphonies are 'tedious', and that you can't recall a single theme. I'd be hard pressed to name anyone else interested in classical music who could claim not to know how at least part of the Third Symphony goes.

As to the recordings you cite, I have both and would say that the Karajan '63 is to be preferred to the Haitink - the latter sounding more like a competent run-through when placed alongside the former.

[Grazioso]

I've long had a fondness for LvB's more obviously classical symphonies, like the 1st, 2nd, and 8th. I don't see them as inferior to his other works in the genre, merely different.

Count me also as one who has never much enjoyed the 3rd, though I wouldn't label it "tedious"  because it has certainly engaged me.

[Great Gable]

Interesting comments, thanks.

Particularly challenging is your opinion that the Third and Fourth Symphonies are 'tedious', and that you can't recall a single theme. I'd be hard pressed to name anyone else interested in classical music who could claim not to know how at least part of the Third Symphony goes.

Well I am failiar with the 3rd Mark but I also find it rather dull. Of the 9, it's my least favourite. I have three complete cycles and must confess to rarely listening to 1,2,3, or 4. I am about to run through one of mine again and will apportion them all more concentration this time than previous outings.

[dirkronk]

Poor 2nd. It would be surprising if it didn't have an inferiority complex, surrounded as it is by its more popular siblings. Still, with the right advocacy, it can be made to sound very appealing. For my tastes, this is provided most ably by Reiner in his mono recording with Pittsburgh. Scherchen also satisfies in his own inimitable fashion. Both offer real excitement, and either will disabuse the listener of the notion that the work isn't worthy.

At least, that's MY opinion.


Dirk

[JoshLilly]

While I love the 1st and 3rd symphonies, I too must admit a slight preference for the 2nd. One thing that can really bring the work alive is how an orchestra handles the gigantic climax at the end of the 1st movement. I've always felt that was some of the most intense stuff Beethoven ever wrote - and seeing that Beethoven was a very intense composer quite often, that's really saying something. People may find I have an almost slavish adherence to Gardiner, but I honestly think his version is the best. I get so wired at how he handles the first movement's big final climax that I almost could jump over a bus.

[MN Dave]

The 2nd is ground to dust by the monoliths that followed.

[karlhenning]

. . . the tedious third and the forth, from which I cannot call a single theme to mind.

I share Mark's puzzlement here;  without breaking much of a sweat, I can hum back practically all the thematic material from these two symphonies.  Where, to respond to Mark's OP, in contrast, nothing from the Second symphony has lodged in my musical memory.  Where I do remember the opening (e.g.) of both the first and last movements of the First (and only partly because I played this in a student orchestra, oh, 21 years ago).

[PerfectWagnerite]

I find the second one of Beethoven's nicer early works, and like it better than the first, the tedious third and the forth, from which I cannot call a single theme to mind.  

That just simply means your musical memory sucks the big one, that is not Beethoven's fault.

[Mark]

People may find I have an almost slavish adherence to Gardiner, but I honestly think his version is the best. I get so wired at how he handles the first movement's big final climax that I almost could jump over a bus.

I have the Gardiner, and I'll shall spin it again now, compelled as I am by your ardent advocacy.

[lukeottevanger]

Okay, admit it. You wouldn't have looked at this thread had its title been, 'Beethoven's Second Symphony'.

Speak for yourself - it's my secret favourite!  There's nothing else like the coda in the first movement

[Morigan]

I've come to love the 2nd Symphony only very recently, I must admit. The thing about Beethoven's symphonies is that they're all so good that it's extremely hard for me to say which one I prefer, because it sounds like I don't like the others.

I invite you to listen to a podcast about the 2nd Symphony, part of the NACOcast series produced by Canada's National Arts Centre (this almost sounds like an ad, but it's not!! lol). It's really interesting, although I find the middle part a bit cheesy (the man reads the Heiligenstadt Testament over the 2nd movement of the symphony...)

http://www.nac-cna.ca/en/multimedia/podcasts/NACOcast.cfm

Look for the 15.09.2007 release.

[jwinter]

Yep, I agree that the 2nd is often unjustly overlooked -- it probably gets the least spin time of any in my collection as well.  I'll have to relisten to the Masur based on your comments -- I remember enjoying his set, but I don't recall the 2nd particularly.  I'll support the Scherchen, Haitink, and Gardiner (I find the HIP approach to be more convincing the earlier you go -- a HIP 9th invariably makes me gnash my teeth, but it can work well in the first few symphonies IMO) mentioned above.  If I had to toss out an additional suggestion it might be Bernstein from his Sony NYPO set (coupled with an excellent 7th, if I recall correctly).  A good muscular performance, a bit powerful without losing the essential classical nature of the piece, if you know what I mean...

[springrite]

I remember taking a lot of jabs for listing Beethoven's 2nd as my second most favorite Beethoven symphony (after #9). The 5th was obviously the first Beethoven symphony that I heard, but the second was the first that I fell in love with. I especially love the second movement and picturing myself in a horse carriage or cart in the country.

[gmstudio]

I've always had a soft spot for the 8^th, very much the same way you're talking about the 2^nd.    As I'm currently amassing some complete collections of the Beethoven Cycle, I'll have to pay closer attention to the 2^nd.

[Mark]

I invite you to listen to a podcast about the 2nd Symphony, part of the NACOcast series produced by Canada's National Arts Centre (this almost sounds like an ad, but it's not!! lol). It's really interesting, although I find the middle part a bit cheesy (the man reads the Heiligenstadt Testament over the 2nd movement of the symphony...)

http://www.nac-cna.ca/en/multimedia/podcasts/NACOcast.cfm

Look for the 15.09.2007 release.

Thanks for this - downloading it now.

[Mark]

Yeah, Gardiner certainly brings a freshness to this symphony. I think ... I like it.

And that NACOcast is worth a go, for anyone interested. Learned quite a bit.

[not edward]

I think that part of the problem with the second is that it's less overtly demonstrative than others, but it's a very fine piece nonetheless.

I find it's best served by performances which go along with its rather Haydnesque nature: thus I didn't grow to love it till I heard Szell and Scherchen. I don't really have much in the way of HIP Beethoven (need to rectify this, of course), but I assume there are HIP analogues to those two.

[Mark]

... its rather Haydnesque nature ...

Glad you mention this, as that's how I hear it. Like a Haydn symphony on steroids.