First written instances of pizz, col legno, con sordino, sul ponticello etc.?

[jochanaan]

Interesting.  Well, I may have got the composer wrong--Someday I'll have to do some checking...

[M forever]

BTW, as a rule of thumb, until fairly recent times, but even still then, anecdotes about who said this or that to this or that guy or stories like the above are most of the time not true. When it goes back that far, they are basically never true (with rare exceptions).

[(poco) Sforzando]

I think he made that up.

I think he did not. In his preface to the Madrigale Guerrieri ed Amorosi, Monteverdi himself quite specifically alludes to the reluctance of contemporary musicians to perform the tremolo as he instructed. The evidence in this case is the composer's own statement, which carries more weight than unsubstantiated anecdote.

As the extract indicates as well, Monteverdi's concept of the tremolo was sixteen semiquavers struck rapidly in succession, to signify the "warlike" style. It was not some kind of vibrato.

[M forever]

Interesting. Thanks for looking that up. It really sounded like those obviously made up anecdotes that are abundant. But if that is what Monterverdi himself wrote, it is probably true. Unless he made it up. 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Here is an excerpt from the Combattimento, giving some idea of the Monteverdi tremolo. (It's from the Raymond Leppard recording on Phillips with Luigi Alva, and so may not be the HIP-est around, but I still like it.)

[jochanaan]

Thanks, Sforzando, for doing my checking for me. My music history professor wasn't in the habit of making up stories, and he was very thorough and scrupulous with his sources.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Thanks, Sforzando, for doing my checking for me. My music history professor wasn't in the habit of making up stories, and he was very thorough and scrupulous with his sources.

My pleasure.

[M forever]

Thanks, Sforzando, for doing my checking for me. My music history professor wasn't in the habit of making up stories, and he was very thorough and scrupulous with his sources.

How do you know? Did you habitually check his sources? Apparently not - otherwise, you could have told me that my assumption about the authenticity (or the lack thereof) of the story was wrong. So why do you say that?

[zamyrabyrd]

pizz: 1643 - Johann Friedrich von der Nasenlänge: "Musicalische Delectirungen für welche Instrumente gestrichener sowie gezupfter Art" (instrumental music for strings)
col legno: 1704 - Giovanni Testosterone: "La incapibilità del mundo" (opera)
con sordino: 1687 - Charles de Grandpieds: "La comédie humaine" (opera)
sul ponticello: 1744 - Adriano Celentano "Mani de velluto" (ballet music), possibly as early as 1712 though - Willibald Stinkefuss: "Exercicien dafür verfasst von der Gamba vortrefflichen Gebrauche zu machen" (musical study pieces for gamba players, it is controversial however if the instructions for the sul ponticello technique weren't added during a later reprinting).

PDQ Bach might disagree with you.

[M forever]

PDQ Bach didn't really exist. Some guy made h up. Johann Friedrich von der Nasenlänge however did!