Bruno Walter

[dirkronk]

Dirk, FYI, the Wagner pieces are included as "filler" in the Bruckner/Mahler Original Jacket set, if that strikes your fancy.   

Wow. Thanks, jwinter. Hadn't realized that the Wagner was hiding in the Mahler/Bruckner set. Given that Amazon has the set for 70-something bucks right now, it's tempting. Maybe an early Christmas present to myself...



Dirk

[Daverz]

I think you are better off buying individual releases of Walter/Beethoven on Amazon. I think all of them are there and each CD is about $4-$5 plus shipping so you should be able to piece together a complete set for around $40, which isn't terrible if you like Walter/Beethoven.

Of course I tried that first, but the "Walter Edition" disc of 5 & 7 became unavailable before I could get to it.  I have the Walter Edition discs of 1+2 and 4+6.  MDT still lists the "Legends" set, but they keep sending me notes that the distributor is out of stock.  At least I have the Odyssey Lps.  I think I'm going to stand pat with the Walter Edition discs I have, but get the earlier mono set from United Archives.  I'm sure Sony/BMG will eventually reissue the stereo set.

[Que]

Of course I tried that first, but the "Walter Edition" disc of 5 & 7 became unavailable before I could get to it.  I have the Walter Edition discs of 1+2 and 4+6.  MDT still lists the "Legends" set, but they keep sending me notes that the distributor is out of stock.  At least I have the Odyssey Lps.  I think I'm going to stand pat with the Walter Edition discs I have, but get the earlier mono set from United Archives.  I'm sure Sony/BMG will eventually reissue the stereo set.

Daverz, I think so too. Besides, that box set issued by Sony France is sound-wise noticeably inferior (a bit murky) to the Bruno Walter Editon. I suspect they used a previous transfer and not the "Super Bit Mapping" of the Edition, which yielded excellent results.

Q

[Lilas Pastia]

The only "unsurpassed" version of anything I heard from Walter is the Brahms 3 with the Columbia SO (unfortunately I have heard very few of his pre-1957 recordings). Other great interpretations that have a place on the Musical Olympics podium include:

-Beethoven 6,
-Bruckner 9,
-Beethoven violin concerto (with Francescatti), and Triple concerto (NYP)
-Brahms Double Concerto (Francescatti and Fournier)
-Schumann PC (Istomin)
-Schubert Unfinished symphony (not so the 9th, a warm and genial interpretation that  is rythmically slack and slightly too laid back for my taste).

and, of the historic recordings, the Wagner Walküre Act I and Mahler 9, both from 1938 (EMI).

I've never been a fan of the famous Ferrier-Patzak-VPO Das Lied. I find it overheated: instances of saccharine phrasing, hothouse recorded sound and Ferrier's intonation problems all bother me. It sounds as if everybody was running a 40-degree fever that day.

There are many I haven't heard, but some day a neat compendium will be issued once the 50-year copyrights have elapsed .

No mention yet of his Dvorak 8 and 9? I haven't heard them, but according to American Record Guide, they are gorgeous.

[dirkronk]

-Beethoven violin concerto (with Francescatti), and Triple concerto (NYP)
-Brahms Double Concerto (Francescatti and Fournier)

Excellent choices...should have listed these myself.

-Schubert Unfinished symphony (not so the 9th, a warm and genial interpretation that  is rythmically slack and slightly too laid back for my taste).

I concur. I prefer the forward momentum offered by Munch or, if I'm in the mood for a more genial approach, the take by Krips for the 9th is more my cuppa tea (to mention only stereo options).

No mention yet of his Dvorak 8 and 9? I haven't heard them, but according to American Record Guide, they are gorgeous.

I like Walter's Dvorak 8th quite a bit, but his New World doesn't really do it for me--and certainly not against Szell, Kubelik and Talich.

My two cents only, of course.

Dirk

[BorisG]

There are many I haven't heard, but some day a neat compendium will be issued once the 50-year copyrights have elapsed .

I am seriously doubting that.

[jwinter]

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations!  I've been having a fine time revisiting some of Walter's recordings this week -- I may dial up the Dvorak tonight.

On a personal note... as I was ripping my MP3s, I noticed that my disc with the Columbia Beethoven 3 & 8 has some sort of defect, which renders the 8th pretty much unlistenable.  If anybody happens to have a copy or high quality MP3 of the 8th that they'd be willing to share, kindly shoot me a PM -- I have oodles of Beethoven in my collection, & I'd be happy to share the wealth. 

[Drasko]

Anyone familiar with this (Schumann 3rd)

[Gustav]

I have his Brahms cycle but still in shrinkwrap...

WHY?? Go listen to them! they are excellent!

The only Mozart I have with him is this one:



and frankly it is terribly. Horribly rushed, no charm whatsover. Best to avoid.

I'll asume that you were intoxicated when you made this remark But, seriously, Walter was THE intepretor of Mozart, and these recordings are AMAZING, the sound is unbelivable for an recording 4 decades old, and Walter's meticulous way with conducting mozart syphonies.. the are all here, you just have to listen to it.

Btw, you REALLY should check out the CBS Odyssey one called "Mozart the last Six Symphonies", maybe you will change your mind once hear that. It's Out of Print, and seldom does it show up on ebay, but you could still get it from other means, bittorent, or eMule both works.

[Tyson]

Love the early Walter, full of fire and passion.  Late Walter, much more autumnal, bleh.

[PerfectWagnerite]

WHY?? Go listen to them! they are excellent!
I'll asume that you were intoxicated when you made this remark But, seriously, Walter was THE intepretor of Mozart, and these recordings are AMAZING, the sound is unbelivable for an recording 4 decades old, and Walter's meticulous way with conducting mozart syphonies.. the are all here, you just have to listen to it.

Btw, you REALLY should check out the CBS Odyssey one called "Mozart the last Six Symphonies", maybe you will change your mind once hear that. It's Out of Print, and seldom does it show up on ebay, but you could still get it from other means, bittorent, or eMule both works.

Incidentall I DID run across the 2 CD set on CBS Odyssey of Walter conducting the final 6 symphonies of Mozart not long after I made the above post and yes they are excellent. In fact drastically different from the first cd I had which I disliked. Then again I sold that single cd and if my memory was playing tricks on me I will never find out now for sure.

His Brahms is pretty good, lot of energy but not driven. Too bad the orchestra isn't great. The flute and horn playing are substandard all around. The fluffy, breathy flute is especially alarming. I think Vienna still owns this music. Here are the other complete Brahms cycles I have (well the ones I remember anyway):

Boehm/WP
Sanderling/SD
Solti/Chicago
Chailly/RCO
Harnoncourt/BP
Karajan/BP (analog 1970s)

and I think I prefer the Boehm by a wide margin just for the sheer finess and power of the playing.

[MichaelRabin]

On a personal note... as I was ripping my MP3s, I noticed that my disc with the Columbia Beethoven 3 & 8 has some sort of defect, which renders the 8th pretty much unlistenable.  If anybody happens to have a copy or high quality MP3 of the 8th that they'd be willing to share, kindly shoot me a PM -- I have oodles of Beethoven in my collection, & I'd be happy to share the wealth. 

My friend has an original copy of this. E-mail on GMG mail. Thanks - RF

[Gustav]

and I think I prefer the Boehm by a wide margin just for the sheer finess and power of the playing.

Interestingly, Boehm in his autobiography said that Bruno Walter made HIM love Mozart more, maybe Boehm was just being modest, or maybe there is some truth to that.

[val]

Bruno Walter was, to me, the greatest interpreter of Mozart. No matter the aesthetic changes, his version of Mozart last 6 Symphonies (with the New York Philharmonic), the 3rd and 4th violin concertos with Francescatti, remain unique.

Regarding Beethoven I am not so enthusiastic, but he recorded the best 4th, and very good 5th and 6th (all with the Columbia Orchestra).

Other great recordings:
Schubert's 9th Symphony with Columbia
Brahms 2nd, 3rd and 4th Symphonies with Columbia and a sublime version of the Schicksalslied.
Mahler's Kindertotenlieder and Das Lied von der Erde with Ferrier and the 4th Symphony with the VPO and Irmgard Seefried. His versions of the First, 2nd and 9th Symphonies are good but not as excepcional as the 4th.

Last but not least, his extraordinary version of the first Act of Die Walküre, with Lotte Lehmann and Melchior.

I never liked much his recordings of Haydn (102 in special) or Bruckner (7 and 9).

[The new erato]

Re the discussion on availability of Walter in Beethoven. Anybody aware of this?

[Bonehelm]

Anyone know if this is any good? It's Dvorak 8 with Colombia, btw.

[Gustav]

Anyone know if this is any good? It's Dvorak 8 with Colombia, btw.

any good? Duh, it's great! i love that recording, I like Bruno Walter's Columbia recordings in general, they are preserved with excellent sound, and the playing is top quality.

[Que]

Re the discussion on availability of Walter in Beethoven. Anybody aware of this?

Yes, I succumbed a while ago to the temptation of yet another LvB cycle...

It's good, it's surprisingly fierce, it's almost like another conductor compared to his later cycle.
It sounds very Viennese in style, very much in the Weingartner and Erich Kleiber mould: meticulous, driven, searching. For anyone familiar with his prewar recordings this will sound familiar.

He does overegg the pudding now and then, with climaxes collapsing, and Walter never seems able to get the 9th right. Despite these (minor) downpoints, I much prefer it to his later cycle and would not part from it. Sounds is OK but on the primitive side as far as the early '40s is concerned (rec. from 1942 - 1952). Remasterings/transfers are really excellent - original source quality.

Q

[FideLeo]

It's good, it's surprisingly fierce, it's almost like another conductor compared to his later cycle.
It sounds very Viennese in style, very much in the Weingartner and Erich Kleiber mould: meticulous, driven, searching. For anyone familiar with his prewar recordings this will sound familiar.

Walter's per-war ferocity can be heard even in not so well restroed recordings - I have the 1942 Met broadcast recording of him doing Don G with Ezio Pinza, Alexander Kipnis et al (on Naxos at a giveaway price).  There is so much more flair and drive (comparable to the current HIP's) he does sound like a different conductor from the one most people associate with the "Columbia SO" recordings. 

[Que]

Walter's per-war ferocity can be heard even in not so well restroed recordings - I have the 1942 Met broadcast recording of him doing Don G with Ezio Pinza, Alexander Kipnis et al (on Naxos at a giveaway price).  There is so much more flair and drive (comparable to the current HIP's) he does sound like a different conductor from the one most people associate with the "Columbia SO" recordings. 

I have that as well - a stunning Don Giovanni!
Indeed, HIP avant la lettre.



Q