Karlheinz Stockhausen: RIP

[uffeviking]

I have a better idea, Josquin: Don't attack anybody! This is a classical music station with the aim to discuss in a polite and civilised manner. Try it, you might like it!

[Montpellier]

Ok ok perhaps lashing at Stockhausen himself was a bit tasteless from my part, though i loath almost everything he represents. That said, i am now going to attack his admirers. 

Go ahead, then. 

But for people like Stockhausen (along with Webern, Pierre Schaeffer, Nono, Berio, Berlioz, Cage, usw) music would have stuck with the wearysome dross of the 1850s-1950s.  At least these pioneers DID something, carving a path for younger composers who, now the fuss has settled down, are composing as they choose, freed from traditional academic chains.  Genre no longer matters: romantic, programmatic, neo-classical, serial, tonal, atonal....or mix and match(?); electonic, acoustic or both.  I don't like too much of his music but I'm prepared to acknowledge a debt. 

RIP Stockhausen.   

[Mark G. Simon]

Stravinsky wearisome dross? I don't think so.

[lukeottevanger]

But for people like Stockhausen (along with Webern, Pierre Schaeffer, Nono, Berio, Berlioz, Cage, usw) music would have stuck with the wearysome dross of the 1850s-1950s. 

Cool typo (italicised)!

[Florestan]

the wearysome dross of the 1850s-1950s.

From the time frame I infer you mean Schoenberg (1874-1951), Webern (1883-1945) and Berg (1885-1935).

May Stockhausen rest in peace.

[Harry]

May Stockhausen rest in peace.

I wish that to most....people.
I would do my best to avoid the music he produced however, for I never could in any way connect to what he did.
That is my loss I am sure........
He is too experimental for me, that's all.

[Montpellier]

Cool typo (italicised)!

Thanks for reading the post!   

[Josquin des Prez]

At least these pioneers DID something

Pioneering in itself has no value, let alone being the only justification for art. And lumping Webern, a genius, along side some of those poseurs and wannabes, what dross!

Genre no longer matters

As if they ever did. Just because it isn't anarchy doesn't mean it's not freedom. May I point out those genres and definitions were given at posteriori?

[Montpellier]

Pioneering in itself has no value, let alone being the only justification for art.

I won't take you to task over that.  It would end up sophistry and word play, be assured.  For pioneers to be acknowldeged their work will have had an impact on their future.   Most people know what my statement meant most of the time. Did you want a list of those younger composers I mentioned?   It would go into several pages, mostly unrecorded but you can find a few in the lists of the spnm if you want. 

And lumping Webern, a genius, along side some of those poseurs and wannabes, what dross!

Unfortunately the first volume of Stockhausen's periodical Die Reihe is dedicated to Webern.  It's called "Anton Webern" who was considered the base of total serialism though, of course, they admitted later (round about vol 6 if I remember rightly - I may be wrong, my mind doesn't hold the index) that the basis of serialism was detected in Debussy.

As if they ever did. Just because it isn't anarchy doesn't mean it's not freedom. May I point out those genres and definitions were given at posteriori?

Of course you may and you can argue the size of the fullstops, the dotting of Ts and the crossing of Is if you want but again, I reckon most people know what I mean.   

[Josquin des Prez]

It would end up sophistry and word play, be assured.

Isn't that what avant-garde is all about, anyway?

For pioneers to be acknowldeged their work will have had an impact on their future.   

Da da, i think we heard enough about the 'future'. The mantra of progressivism is really showing the hollowness of it's rhetoric if the sole purpose of art is to reach the unborn (and then act surprised when the children of the future refuse to listen).

Did you want a list of those younger composers I mentioned?   It would go into several pages, mostly unrecorded but you can find a few in the lists of the spnm if you want.

Please, don't.

Unfortunately the first volume of Stockhausen's periodical Die Reihe is dedicated to Webern.  It's called "Anton Webern" who was considered the base of total serialism though, of course, they admitted later (round about vol 6 if I remember rightly - I may be wrong, my mind doesn't hold the index) that the basis of serialism was detected in Debussy.

And of course, 'serialism' is the only reason to bother with those composers, everything else being dross (well, except for Berlioz). Avast comrades, we must destroy the present in order to built a new future! Utopia awaits.

Of course you may and you can argue the size of the fullstops, the dotting of Ts and the crossing of Is if you want

Or rather, we could talk about music.

[Montpellier]

Fine.  I posted to pay respect and wish the man well on what happens next for him.  Put in a good word for his work.  If you want to talk about his works (assuming I know them), happy to oblige.

[Montpellier]

'pon my soul - 0'35" is a seriously short version of Kontakte. 

Thanks for this info.  These are programme changes.   Hear and Now was on my list, not the music matters.