Cholesterol...

[SonicMan46]

Well, thanks to my diet and constant exercise I managed to bring back the Cholesterol levels to almost normal again, without statins, and my liver levels are also almost back to normal..................

Harry - congratulations on this outcome!    Weight loss, dietary changes, & plenty of good excercise will all help to adjust one's lipid profile to more normal levels, will also lower fasting blood sugar (i.e. diabetes), and of course have plenty of other benefits - hope that you have continued to enjoy your wine!   Dave 

[Harry]

Harry - congratulations on this outcome!    Weight loss, dietary changes, & plenty of good excercise will all help to adjust one's lipid profile to more normal levels, will also lower fasting blood sugar (i.e. diabetes), and of course have plenty of other benefits - hope that you have continued to enjoy your wine!   Dave 

Thanks! It was and is still hard work!
Yes the wine is okay to drink Dave, but less, that's all!

[Harry]

Congratulations, Harry!   

Thanks Todd, PM will follow!

[vandermolen]

Just saw this thread. I'm on Simvastatin 40 mg (for about 6 months). It has lead to a dramatic drop in my cholesterol levels. I don't like having to take drugs but as my dad had a heart attack at 50 and died of heart failure at 63 I was considered a higher risk than some.

I've had no bad side effects except I felt sick when I drunk some punch at a party recently. I guess it had grapefruit juice in it (which you should avoid when on Simvastatin).

I've just read in the paper today that red wine reverses the ageing process, so that will be my next line of treatment 

[Harry]

Just saw this thread. I'm on Simvastatin 40 mg (for about 6 months). It has lead to a dramatic drop in my cholesterol levels. I don't like having to take drugs but as my dad had a heart attack at 50 and died of heart failure at 63 I was considered a higher risk than some.

I've had no bad side effects except I felt sick when I drunk some punch at a party recently. I guess it had grapefruit juice in it (which you should avoid when on Simvastatin).

I've just read in the paper today that red wine reverses the ageing process, so that will be my next line of treatment 

Well you are a exception on the rule, most people have severe side effects.

[vandermolen]

Well you are a exception on the rule, most people have severe side effects.

Really? What kind of side effects? I did once feel a bit nauseous when I had drunk some wine shortly before taking the statin, but none since. Will discuss with my GP when I see him.

[(poco) Sforzando]

Well you are a exception on the rule, most people have severe side effects.

Where do you get that from? Statins are among the most prescribed medications in the United States. Millions are using them. If there were such severe side effects, why would the drugs continue to be prescribed?

[(poco) Sforzando]

Really? What kind of side effects? I did once feel a bit nauseous when I had drunk some wine shortly before taking the statin, but none since. Will discuss with my GP when I see him.

I wouldn't put my faith in Harry as a medical authority.

[Harry]

Thank you Sforzando, this reaction of yours, which I expected by the way, was the reason why I rather PM about this.

[Harry]

Really? What kind of side effects? I did once feel a bit nauseous when I had drunk some wine shortly before taking the statin, but none since. Will discuss with my GP when I see him.

PM me my friend, if you want to know about the side effects, but internet will provide you also with enough data about the side effects of Statins. There are many clinical test results to prove my claim.

[vandermolen]

PM me my friend, if you want to know about the side effects, but internet will provide you also with enough data about the side effects of Statins. There are many clinical test results to prove my claim.

Thank you. Will do 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Thank you Sforzando, this reaction of yours, which I expected by the way, was the reason why I rather PM about this.

Quite right, Harry. Don't cast your pearls before swine. You're the expert on statins, as opposed to thousands of doctors who have prescribed them with considerable benefit and without ill effect.

[Harry]

Quite right, Harry. Don't cast your pearls before swine. You're the expert on statins, as opposed to thousands of doctors who have prescribed them with considerable benefit and without ill effect.

I never said that! I am not a expert, in the true sense of the word, but I read quite a bit of research done by scientists that are experts, including a good friend of mine that is a internist and wrote quite extensively about it.
Many doctors say there are no side effect. But more doctors are saying the opposite now.
Immerse your self in all what is written and for you to find on internet, before bashing my brains.
I have two academic degrees my friend and am quite capable to understand what is written about it.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I never said that! I am not a expert, in the true sense of the word, but I read quite a bit of research done by scientists that are experts, including a good friend of mine that is a internist and wrote quite extensively about it.
Many doctors say there are no side effect. But more doctors are saying the opposite now.
Immerse your self in all what is written and for you to find on internet, before bashing my brains.
I have two academic degrees my friend and am quite capable to understand what is written about it.

And your degrees are in what? pharmacology? medicine? art history? I've got three academic degrees myself.

Of course there are side effects. There are side effects to any drug. With statins the liver enzymes must be checked periodically to ensure they have not been affected by the medication. That has been known for decades, and every responsible doctor in the US who prescribes these drugs will insist that the liver functions be monitored regularly.

But the benefits in preventing heart attack, stroke, and even Alzheimer's appear to be enormous:

Patients taking both high and low doses of Lipitor experienced fewer cardiovascular events; patients on high-dose Lipitor had significantly fewer events than those on lower dose.

Patients with coronary heart disease who took Pfizer Inc's cholesterol-lowering medicine Lipitor (atorvastatin calcium) and lowered their cholesterol to well below recommended levels experienced significantly fewer heart attacks and strokes than those who only lowered their cholesterol to recommended levels, according to data presented here today at the annual meeting of the American College of Cardiology.

Since the introduction of Lipitor nine years ago, its safety and efficacy have been supported through an extensive clinical trial program with more than 400 ongoing and competed trials involving more than 80,000 patients, Lipitor is the most prescribed cholesterol-lowering therapy in the world with nearly 100 million patient years of experience.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/21001.php

Also: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS179948+01-Apr-2008+BW20080401
http://www.alzheimersupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/2107

But let us all defer to Harry, who knows better.

Seems to me that if you really wanted an honest discussion, you'd post your arguments online rather than expecting PMs only from those ready to kowtow to your "expertise."

[mn dave]

Yeah, lay it out for us, Harry. No one here will hold you to it. 

[(poco) Sforzando]

Yeah, lay it out for us, Harry. No one here will hold you to it. 

I could use a few laughs myself. 

[mn dave]

I'm sure it involves rowing machines. 

[Harry]

Statins work by inhibiting the enzyme HMG-CoA reductase, the enzyme that determines the rate of cholesterol formation.

Some research suggests that statin drugs may interfere with the body's production of Co q10, a substance produced naturally in the body and found in every cell. Co q10 has a key role in the mitochondria, the part of a cell that produces energy.

Statins have been found to decrease Co q10 production as a side effect of their action.
A Columbia University study in New York found that 30 days of statin therapy (80 mg/day) decreased Co q10 levels by half.


Another study by researchers at Kanazawa University in Japan found that smaller doses of statin drugs can reduce Co q10. After 8 weeks of 10 mg a day statin therapy, Co q10 levels decreased by 40 percent.
Some researchers suggest that this side effect may counteract any benefits of taking statins.

For example, in an article published in the journal Biofactors, cardiologist and researcher Dr. Peter Langsjoen says, "The depletion of the essential nutrient Co q10 by the increasingly popular cholesterol lowering drugs, HMG CoA reductase inhibitors (statins), has grown from a level of concern to one of alarm."

"With ever higher statin potencies and dosages and with a steadily shrinking target LDL cholesterol, the prevalence and severity of Co q10 deficiency is increasingly noticeable."

However, research on whether Co q10 supplements are beneficial in people taking statins is still inconclusive. Co q10 is not routinely recommended in combination with statin therapy.

People particularly vulnerable to statin induced Co q10 deficiency are:
over 50 years of age

have a history of diabetes

have or are at risk for heart failure or cardiomyopathy

Co q10 supplements are usually orange colored tablets or capsules, found in drug stores and health food stores. It is one of the more expensive nutritional supplements. In Japan, Co q10 is one of the top three best-selling nutritional supplements.

[mn dave]

So, what do we do instead, Harry?

[Harry]

..."Statins could initiate and/or accelerate malignant growth by a) blocking the production of Coenzyme Q10, which has been shown to have anti-cancer effects; b) stimulating the growth of new blood vessels that malignancies require to promote their propagation; c) decreasing the cytotoxicity of natural killer cells; d) blocking the production of squalene, an intermediate cholesterol metabolite with anti-cancer activities in animal studies and currently used as adjunctive therapy in treating cancer; e) reducing the production of DHEA, which has been shown to have anticancer and immune stimulating effects in experimental studies."...

High Cholesterol May Protect Against Infections And Atherosclerosis

..."Incredibly Merck formula and Patent rights* for CQ10 were sold to the Japanese circa 1958 as this would compete with their blockbuster drug Diuril. Fortunately, the Japanese were able to synthesize large quantities of this nutrient, where is it has been used for over 30 years as an effective treatment for heart disease."...

GETTING BOOTED FROM A DRUG INDUSTRY-SUPPORTED WEBSITE

..."Statin-induced CoQ10 depletion is well documented in animal and human studies with detrimental cardiac consequences in both animal models and human trials. Furthermore, this drug-induced nutrient deficiency is dose-related and more notable in settings of pre-existing CoQ10 deficiency such as in the elderly and in heart failure."...

CQ10 (coenzyme Q10) and Cancer

CoQ10 Depletion. The Achilles Heel of the Statin Crusade.

Peter H. Langsjoen, M.D., F.A.C.C., Cardiovascular Diseases. Research in Biomedical Aspects of Coenzyme Q10. Tel (903) 595-3778, Fax (903) 595-4962 1107 Doctors Dr., Tyler, Texas 75701,USA.

www.coenzymeQ10.org

The depletion of the essential nutrient coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) by the increasingly popular cholesterol lowering drugs, HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors (statins) has grown from a level of concern to one of alarm. With ever higher statin potencies and dosages, and with a steadily shrinking target LDL cholesterol, the prevalence and severity of CoQ10 deficiency is increasing noticeably to the physicians in the trenches of front line patient care. An estimated 36 million Americans are now candidates for statin drug therapy.

CoQ10 serves as the coenzyme for mitochondrial enzyme complexes I, II and III and is essential for mitochondrial ATP production. CoQ10 is also a clinically relevant fat-soluble antioxidant and is the only fat soluble antioxidant that is known to be synthesized de novo. It is found normally in the diet, predominantly in organ meats and is biosynthesized in all cells with peak capabilities in late teens and early twenties with a gradual age-related decline in blood and tissue CoQ10 levels after the age of 30 years.

Statin-induced CoQ10 depletion has been documented in 15 animal studies in six different animal species and has been shown to correlate with decreased ATP production, increased ischemia reperfusion injury, skeletal muscle injury and increased mortality.

There are 15 published trials on statin-induced CoQ10 depletion in humans. Of these 15 trials, nine were controlled trials, eight of which documented significant CoQ10 depletion. Statin-induced CoQ10 depletion has been shown to be associated with a fall in left ventricular function, an elevation of lactate to pyruvate ratio and an enhancement of LDL cholesterol oxidation. The current data on diastolic dysfunction further confirms the clinical importance of this drug-nutrient interaction.

Statin-induced CoQ10 depletion is well documented in animal and human studies with detrimental cardiac consequences in both animal models and human trials. Furthermore, this drug-induced nutrient deficiency is dose-related and more notable in settings of pre-existing CoQ10 deficiency such as in the elderly and in heart failure. Finally, statin-induced CoQ10 deficiency is completely preventable with supplemental CoQ10 with no adverse impact on the cholesterol lowering or anti-inflammatory properties of the statin drugs.

We are currently in the midst of a congestive heart failure epidemic in the United States, the cause or causes of which are unclear. As physicians, it is our duty to be absolutely certain that we are not inadvertently doing harm to our patients by creating a wide-spread deficiency of a nutrient critically important for normal heart function.

See also:

Coenzyme Q10

Statin Drugs & Breast Cancer

Statin Drugs & Memory Loss

Bad News About Statin Drugs