Bach's St. Matthew Passion

[Marc]

Gentlemen, understood.

[Coopmv]

I place much more validity in the Fanfare reviews than the comments of Amazon consumers.  Fanfare regularly praises Nuemann's Handel sets.  Still, the main point here is that you can't expect anyone to give much weight to your opinions of a recording when you haven't even heard it.

I do not view myself as a music critic as some of the more pompous individuals on the forum do.  I read and assimilate what I feel is worthwhile.  I feel good about having collected a pretty comprehensive library of works by Bach and Handel.  I am a mathematician by training and believe more in the law of large numbers - when 20+ people review a given recording than relying on a single so called expert's review ...

[Marc]

Of course one can use reviews to make a choice when buying.
But, just as an example: I've read almost 1000 enthousiastic reviews about Gardiner's SMP, and about three that mention Hermann Max. IMHO: those who selected Max are right, by a wide margin.

In the end, it has to be my own opinion (after listening myself) that makes a selection/choice. And yes, I guess sometimes me is 'pompous' in my 'reviews', too. Just out of enthousiasm though.

[Sorin Eushayson]

Sure. And I prefer both the H's by far. It might just be me!
I must admit though that I'm intrigued by the 'out of touch' characterization.

To elaborate, Herreweghe's Bach comes across as too light and sensitive for me.  It's like he's afraid to touch it; understandable, I suppose, but it would be nice to hear him get into it!

Harnoncourt I have had bad experiences with in general with regards to Baroque.  His work sounds kind of... distorted, as if he's trying to take the piece in a direction it doesn't want to go.

Anyhow, that's what I meant!

I might have to try this Hermann Max's recording, however.  What I've read of it I've liked.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I feel good about having collected a pretty comprehensive library of works by Bach and Handel.

Having a "collection" and having insight are two different things.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

To elaborate, Herreweghe's Bach comes across as too light and sensitive for me.  It's like he's afraid to touch it; understandable, I suppose, but it would be nice to hear him get into it!

Herreweghe might be different things to different people but "afraid to touch" Bach is simply inaccurate. Honestly, I can't think of another conductor who is MORE in touch with Bach...

But like I've said before Herreweghe's brand of music-making isn't the type to slap a listener out of their chair. More's the better in my book. Savoring the music can be just as satisfying as 'jammin' to it.

[jlaurson]

To elaborate, Herreweghe's Bach comes across as too light and sensitive for me.  It's like he's afraid to touch it; understandable, I suppose, but it would be nice to hear him get into it!

Harnoncourt I have had bad experiences with in general with regards to Baroque.  His work sounds kind of... distorted, as if he's trying to take the piece in a direction it doesn't want to go.

I can't deny that your reaction to Herreweghe's Bach genuinely baffles me. I lack comprehension. I hate Bernstein's Mahler vs. I love Bernstein's Mahler... that I can understand... but Herreweghe afraid of Bach, distorted? No, mon amie, I am warping into a question mark of flesh.

Will you maybe give him another try with this disc?!:

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/03/weinen-klagenherreweghes-new-bach.html

[Marc]

Or his first recording of the Matthäus-Passion.
Or his cantata disc Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, with BWV 8, 125 and 138.
Or his disc with BWV 21 and 42.
Or his Bach cantata recordings for Virgin Classics.

[Sorin Eushayson]

Well, given your guys' persistence perhaps I will have to try another Herreweghe Bach disc in the future, though up to this point I've always been underwhelmed...

[Marc]

Well, given your guys' persistence perhaps I will have to try another Herreweghe Bach disc in the future, though up to this point I've always been underwhelmed...

Relax, Sorin.

Your remarks only shocked some of us in a life-threatening way. No serious problems involved, so to speak.

But yes, the short list certainly was meant to give you a few of my favourite things!

[Sorin Eushayson]

Relax, Sorin.

Your remarks only shocked some of us in a life-threatening way. No serious problems involved, so to speak.

But yes, the short list certainly was meant to give you a few of my favourite things!

I certainly won't disregard such fervent and enthusiastic recommendations!  I'm reminded of Proverbs: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.. 

[Coopmv]

I certainly won't disregard such fervent and enthusiastic recommendations!  I'm reminded of Proverbs: The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.. 

If you are not totally gung ho about 100% HIP performance.  You may want to consider the following two SMP versions, which I own as well.  BTW, I have most of the HIP versions in my collection ...

[Coopmv]

I just added this DVD to my SMP collection ...

[Sorin Eushayson]

If you are not totally gung ho about 100% HIP performance...

I don't think I could be much more gung-ho!

[Leo K.]

I'm usually more of an HIP guy when it comes to 18th Century music, but lately I've been returning to my old love for Bernstein's Bach (which was my first Matthew Passion as a youth).  As a matter of fact I decided to rebuy it because I didn't own it anymore:



(I also like it because it's sung in English...no reading required)


And this one is rather new to me, and I just love it:




I' surprised I haven't heard much about these performances on this thread as of yet, although I strongly feel they have great merit (despite the cuts) and provide a great contrast to the HIP recordings.

[Coopmv]

I'm usually more of an HIP guy when it comes to 18th Century music, but lately I've been returning to my old love for Bernstein's Bach (which was my first Matthew Passion as a youth).  As a matter of fact I decided to rebuy it because I didn't own it anymore:



(I also like it because it's sung in English...no reading required)


And this one is rather new to me, and I just love it:




I' surprised I haven't heard much about these performances on this thread as of yet, although I strongly feel they have great merit (despite the cuts) and provide a great contrast to the HIP recordings.

While I prefer Baroque music to be HIP, I am not nut about HIP.  I bought this Mengelberg's St Matthew Passion last spring and enjoyed it.  It was a different era and one should not summarily write off any historical recordings just because they were not HIP.  St Matthew Passion by Furtwangler also falls into the not-to-be-written-off category.

[Sean]

I know this work from the Solti, which I recommend very much, despite his strengths being in later music.

[Leo K.]

While I prefer Baroque music to be HIP, I am not nut about HIP.  I bought this Mengelberg's St Matthew Passion last spring and enjoyed it.  It was a different era and one should not summarily write off any historical recordings just because they were not HIP.  St Matthew Passion by Furtwangler also falls into the not-to-be-written-off category.

Exactly and I agree...also, thanks for the heads up on the Mengelberg recording.

[Leo K.]

Heard this for the first time the other night...WOW.  Trying to formulate some thoughts but still reeling after a couple days!

[knight66]

Authentic or not, it packs a mighty punch, despite the modest number of singers. It has a wonderful directness and the drama is very clearly laid out.

Mike