Bach's St. Matthew Passion

Started by Bogey, December 10, 2007, 05:56:01 PM

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jlaurson


Scarpia

Quote from: jlaurson on June 05, 2010, 08:14:15 AM
It's good sh*t, as they say: review & comparison (of sorts) here, FYI. http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=464

Still waiting for my copy to make it's way across the Atlantic.

I was going to get this version as well



but discovered the packaging is very annoying, the whole thing bound like a mini hardcover book with the discs in paper sleeves incorporated into the cover and pages of the book.   Same as this one:




I wish they would have put it in a little clam shell box.

jlaurson

Quote from: Scarpia on June 05, 2010, 08:27:57 AM


but discovered the packaging is very annoying, the whole thing bound like a mini hardcover book with the discs in paper sleeves incorporated into the cover and pages of the book.   Same as [Harnoncourt III]
I wish they would have put it in a little clam shell box.

I love that style of packaging. Unless the CDs are too damn tight in those sleeves, then it can be a hassle. But even so... anything beats a jewel case and 'books' beat clamshell cases. And nothing beats Channel Classics' Veldhoven Bach packaging... in the original versions. (And the M-Passion wasn't as luxuriously packaged as BMM, CO, and StJP.)

Opus106

Quote from: jlaurson on June 05, 2010, 08:32:26 AM
(And the M-Passion wasn't as luxuriously packaged as BMM, CO, and StJP.)

Not cool enough.  :(
Regards,
Navneeth

DarkAngel

#244
Quote from: DarkAngel on May 24, 2010, 09:27:42 AM


Finally got this overseas from UK vendor........Kiujken has gone very minimalist compared to SMP with Leonhardt 20 years ago, now has bought into Rifkin/Parrott theories doing away with proper choral group and just using 8 soloists, 2 each of:
-soprano
-alto
-tenor
-bass

The effect is very intimate more like a motet or madrigal, choral parts taken by single voices. Kuijken said he researched church records and Bach's student record info as well as financial constraints of church convince him this is most likely the manner this work was performed

Music Web (not surprising) has posted a very positive review for Kuijken OVPP version, I was not really impressed and sold my version.......

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/June10/Bach_Matthew_CC72357.htm

I was much more impressed with Dunedin/Linn version also a OVPP style performance but with more passion and drama, beautiful recording....comes close to fullfilling the phrase "less is more"




Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 05, 2010, 12:39:42 PM

Music Web (not surprising) has posted a very positive review for Kuijken OVPP version, I was not really impressed and sold my version.......

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/June10/Bach_Matthew_CC72357.htm

I was much more impressed with Dunedin/Linn version also a OVPP style performance but with more passion and drama, beautiful recording....comes close to fullfilling the phrase "less is more"



DA, I bought both of these SMP's over a month ago, one after the other.  They are both keeper to me.  A few days ago, I also received the following SMP as a gift from a friend, who was briefly a member of GMG ...



Coopmv

Quote from: Coopmv on June 05, 2010, 01:43:50 PM
DA, I bought both of these SMP's over a month ago, one after the other.  They are both keeper to me.  A few days ago, I also received the following SMP as a gift from a friend, who was briefly a member of GMG ...



After a few diversions due to my weekend chores, I finally finished listening to this set, which is a gift from a friend.  My friend may be right that this set is better than the second Herreweghe's set.  Personally, the only fly in the ointment is Rene Jacobs, whom I never like in the alto role.  I have never liked him ever since I first started listening to choral works going back almost 30 years.  Even a Janet Baker or Christa Ludwig well past their prime would have been preferrable to Rene Jacobs in the alto role of SMP ...

DarkAngel

#247
Quote from: Coopmv on June 05, 2010, 01:43:50 PM
DA, I bought both of these SMP's over a month ago, one after the other.  They are both keeper to me.  A few days ago, I also received the following SMP as a gift from a friend, who was briefly a member of GMG ...



I had that SMP a few years ago, it had different cover artwork...........



but later sold it for newer Herreweghe perfomance featuring stellar group of singers and great sound.....
(Andreas Scholl replaces Jacobs)
I prefer the newer version overall, available in a reduced price version

 

Coopmv

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 05, 2010, 07:00:37 PM

I had that SMP a few years ago, it had different cover artwork...........



but later sold it for newer Herreweghe perfomance featuring stellar group of singers and great sound.....
I prefer the newer version now available in a reduced price version

 

Different covers but the same recording.  I found the soprano singing by Barbara Schlick in the earlier version one of the best in that role for SMP and am not sure the later Herreweghe's version could do better, which I zipped through a bit too fast. 

Bogey

Quote from: DarkAngel on June 05, 2010, 07:00:37 PM

I had that SMP a few years ago, it had different cover artwork...........



but later sold it for newer Herreweghe perfomance featuring stellar group of singers and great sound.....
(Andreas Scholl replaces Jacobs)
I prefer the newer version overall, available in a reduced price version

 

Wow.  I love the old recording, but then again have not tried the newer one.  Maybe I need to.  I can see having both, but I would be surprised if I got rid of the first. 
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Marc

Quote from: Coopmv on June 05, 2010, 06:39:55 PM
After a few diversions due to my weekend chores, I finally finished listening to this set, which is a gift from a friend.  My friend may be right that this set is better than the second Herreweghe's set.  Personally, the only fly in the ointment is Rene Jacobs, whom I never like in the alto role.  I have never liked him ever since I first started listening to choral works going back almost 30 years.  Even a Janet Baker or Christa Ludwig well past their prime would have been preferrable to Rene Jacobs in the alto role of SMP ...
Jacobs is indeed the weakest link in Herreweghe's first SMP. He was in his prime during the seventies, as a few Cantata recordings with Leonhardt prove.
After that he developed some kind of a rather shrill and sharp edge around his voice.

In Herreweghe II, to me the weakest link is Ian Bostridge, with an almost hysterical interpretation of the Evangelist part. IMO, the Evangelist should deliver a delicate mix between involvement and objectivism. My fave interpreter of that role is Austrian Kurt Equiluz.

Some other short remarks (entirely personal of course):
Soprano Barbara Schlick (H I) shows a better understanding of the lyrics than Sibylla Rubens (H II).
And baritone Dietrich Henschel (H II) is very good as a recitativo singer, but I'm not particularly impressed by his aria singing. Peter Kooy (H I) is much better.

Summarized: I find Herreweghe II less striking than his first. Everything in H II is (alsmost) perfect, but also a bit too much spick and span. The warmth of the Herreweghe sound is still there, though.
But if I had to choose between the two, I would definitely pick Herreweghe I (despite the awful edit cut after about 17 seconds in the opening choir), and the less logical division of cd's.

Coopmv

Quote from: Marc on June 06, 2010, 01:06:00 AM
Jacobs is indeed the weakest link in Herreweghe's first SMP. He was in his prime during the seventies, as a few Cantata recordings with Leonhardt prove.
After that he developed some kind of a rather shrill and sharp edge around his voice.

In Herreweghe II, to me the weakest link is Ian Bostridge, with an almost hysterical interpretation of the Evangelist part. IMO, the Evangelist should deliver a delicate mix between involvement and objectivism. My fave interpreter of that role is Austrian Kurt Equiluz.

Some other short remarks (entirely personal of course):
Soprano Barbara Schlick (H I) shows a better understanding of the lyrics than Sibylla Rubens (H II).
And baritone Dietrich Henschel (H II) is very good as a recitativo singer, but I'm not particularly impressed by his aria singing. Peter Kooy (H I) is much better.

Summarized: I find Herreweghe II less striking than his first. Everything in H II is (alsmost) perfect, but also a bit too much spick and span. The warmth of the Herreweghe sound is still there, though.
But if I had to choose between the two, I would definitely pick Herreweghe I (despite the awful edit cut after about 17 seconds in the opening choir), and the less logical division of cd's.

Marc, we are in substantial agreement.  I have Ian Bostridge on a Bach DVD, either Mass in B or Christmas Oratorio but still cannot say I have found any major flaw with him.  Baritone Dietrich Henschel was on a few of my Bach DVD's and I am quite impressed with this onetime student of the great Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau.  When it comes to the my all-time favorite for the Evangelist, Peter Schreier has gotten my vote.

I am eagerly awaiting for the release of the SMP by Veldhoven and the Netherlands Bach Society.  I like Johannette Zomer in her other soprano roles and would like to hear how she did in Veldhoven's SMP ...

Bogey

Back to reasons to having multiple performances.  Some works ask for this.  This work shouts for it, IMO. :)
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Coopmv

Quote from: Bogey on June 06, 2010, 04:57:50 AM
Back to reasons to having multiple performances.  Some works ask for this.  This work shouts for it, IMO. :)

Morning Bill.

I just re-ordered the SMP on DVD by Ton Koopman and am eagerly awaiting its arrival.  The last order I placed last year was lost in mail.  I was really impressed with Koopman and his Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra in their performance of Bach Cantatas on a DVD I bought a few months ago.  Seeing is believing ...   ;D

Bogey

Quote from: Coopmv on June 06, 2010, 05:01:45 AM
Morning Bill.

I just re-ordered the SMP on DVD by Ton Koopman and am eagerly awaiting its arrival.  The last order I placed last year was lost in mail.  I was really impressed with Koopman and his Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra in their performance of Bach Cantatas on a DVD I bought a few months ago.  Seeing is believing ...   ;D

'Morning, Stuart.  Please post here with your comments on it so I do not miss them.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Coopmv

Quote from: Bogey on June 06, 2010, 05:04:17 AM
'Morning, Stuart.  Please post here with your comments on it so I do not miss them.

Will do, Bill.

The new erato

Quote from: jlaurson on June 05, 2010, 08:32:26 AM
I love that style of packaging. Unless the CDs are too damn tight in those sleeves, then it can be a hassle. But even so... anything beats a jewel case and 'books' beat clamshell cases.
True indeed.

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on June 06, 2010, 04:57:50 AM
Back to reasons to having multiple performances.  Some works ask for this.  This work shouts for it, IMO. :)

Not sure that I'm even a poster in this thread!  :o  The night is late and have not reviewed the previous 12+ pages - sorry -  :-\

But I've been 'slowly' going through Robert Greenberg's Teaching Company offering on Bach (32 45-min. talks) (brief description attached) - coming to the end but Greenberg decided to spend 4 lectures, i.e. 3 hrs, on the St. Matthew Passion (and gives the listener the impression that it is the greatest musical composition of its time); now, I've owned a number of recordings of the SMP, but currently have just the one shown below -  :)

But Bill's comment in combination w/ Greenberg's emphasis of this work (1/8 of his total lecture series!) makes me want to own at least several copies of this masterpiece - so, I'm hoping that the frequent posters to this thread might kindly provide some guidelines to pick a few (yes HIP vs. non-HIP, multiple voices per part vs. single voices, etc would all be fine).  Hopefully, I can pick up a couple more versions of this work which are best appreciated by all - thanks for any input!  Dave  :)




Bogey

Quote from: SonicMan on July 01, 2010, 05:28:53 PM
Not sure that I'm even a poster in this thread!  :o  The night is late and have not reviewed the previous 12+ pages - sorry -  :-\

But I've been 'slowly' going through Robert Greenberg's Teaching Company offering on Bach (32 45-min. talks) (brief description attached) - coming to the end but Greenberg decided to spend 4 lectures, i.e. 3 hrs, on the St. Matthew Passion (and gives the listener the impression that it is the greatest musical composition of its time); now, I've owned a number of recordings of the SMP, but currently have just the one shown below -  :)

But Bill's comment in combination w/ Greenberg's emphasis of this work (1/8 of his total lecture series!) makes me want to own at least several copies of this masterpiece - so, I'm hoping that the frequent posters to this thread might kindly provide some guidelines to pick a few (yes HIP vs. non-HIP, multiple voices per part vs. single voices, etc would all be fine).  Hopefully, I can pick up a couple more versions of this work which are best appreciated by all - thanks for any input!  Dave  :)



Dave,
Are the Greenberg classes free, or do you have to pay?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

SonicMan46

Quote from: Bogey on July 01, 2010, 08:38:56 PM
Dave,
Are the Greenberg classes free, or do you have to pay?

Bill - Bob Greenberg is the 'musical man' for the Teaching Company's courses - Check HERE for a more thorough description of the Bach Baroque set; Susan & I purchase a lot of these courses - always buy when ON SALE!  The Bach set is currently $129.95 for the DVDs (about half that price for the audio download).  Dave  :D  P.S. I've got an 'old' thread somewhere on this company?