The Worst First!

[karlhenning]

Inflated opinion? Elgar's symphonies have given me superior musical pleasure for 10 years! There is nothing inflated about that.

Ah yes, welcome to another conversation with Poju which chases its tail.

Take a deep breath, Poju.  Musical greatness is not simply a matter of Poju liking it a lot.

Got it?  Good.

[BachQ]

Musical greatness is not simply a matter of Poju liking it a lot.

It is on Planet Poju .........

[71 dB]

Actually, 71dB, with the exception of the Pastoral, ALL of Beethoven's Symphonies are very poorly orchestrated.  What a mess.  LvB should not have ventured past the string quartet genre.

Don't misshandle my words! They are not VERY POORLY orchestrated, just mediocre.

[BachQ]

Don't misshandle my words! They are not VERY POORLY orchestrated, just mediocre.

In comparison to Elgar, they are VERY POORLY orchestrated ........ No?

[71 dB]

Musical greatness is not simply a matter of Poju liking it a lot.

Got it?  Good.

It's not what Karl Henning likes either! Got it?  Good.

[karlhenning]

They are not VERY POORLY orchestrated, just mediocre.

Go right ahead, and dig into that hole, Poju.

[karlhenning]

It's not what Karl Henning likes either!

The significant difference being, Poju, that I do not call anyone else a non-freethinking imbecile for no better reason than that his musical tastes differ to mine.

That we leave to small minds such as yours.

[71 dB]

Go right ahead, and dig into that hole, Poju.

You keep doing that whatever I say. I HATE you!

God heavens you make me furious. I just want to talk about classical music, maybe meet other Elgarians and so on.... ...I don't want this, I don't want to be hostile. I want to be friendly and I want other people be friendly too

[Cato]

You keep doing that whatever I say. I HATE you!

God heavens you make me furious. I just want to talk about classical music, maybe meet other Elgarians and so on.... ...I don't want this, I don't want to be hostile. I want to be friendly and I want other people be friendly too

This has to be ironically satiric, right?

If not:

Try: www.elgar.org

[karlhenning]

I haven't heard the Skryabin First, and maybe it's as bad as all that.

Haven't yet listened to "Rocky I" . . . but I hear so much of merit in II and III, that it would really surprise me, when I do actually listen to the First, if I find that it belongs at the bottom of the 'first heap'.

Speaking of first symphonies which are nothing like a composer's mature voice . . . there's the Stravinsky Symphony in E-Flat, of course.  Not anything like 'the worst first', though.

[Grazioso]

I've been embarked on a listening project to hear the complete symphony cycles of as many composers as possible (it's my favorite genre), and I have to say that Elgar's 1st is one I just haven't been able to listen to all the way through despite a few tries.

I know it's fashionable around here to mock Elgar, and I'm not doing that since I genuinely enjoy some of his works, but that symphony just hasn't done for me yet.

[BachQ]

Try: www.elgar.org

Ahhhhh!  ......... Home Sweet Home ........

[BachQ]

and I have to say that Elgar's 1st is one I just haven't been able to listen to all the way through despite a few tries.

I know it's fashionable around here to mock Elgar, and I'm not doing that since I genuinely enjoy some of his works, but that symphony just hasn't done for me yet.

Testify, brother ......... Keep hope alive! ..........

[karlhenning]

You keep doing that whatever I say. I HATE you!

God heavens you make me furious. I just want to talk about classical music, maybe meet other Elgarians and so on.... ...I don't want this, I don't want to be hostile. I want to be friendly and I want other people be friendly too

Well, I don't hate you, Poju.  Roughly half of what you say is next door to nonsense, but I do not find that any occasion for hatred.  For instance, you take the fact that I do not have an especially high opinion of the Elgar First as "anti-Elgarian."  That is unadulterated piffle, Poju.

I'll let you in on a secret, Poju.  If it were true that you do not want to be hostile, you won't be.

If people not having a high opinion of the Elgar First is going to enrage you, you must prepare yourself for frequent enragement.

[71 dB]

I've been embarked on a listening project to hear the complete symphony cycles of as many composers as possible (it's my favorite genre), and I have to say that Elgar's 1st is one I just haven't been able to listen to all the way through despite a few tries.

I know it's fashionable around here to mock Elgar, and I'm not doing that since I genuinely enjoy some of his works, but that symphony just hasn't done for me yet.

I can't understand why people don't enjoy this fantastic symphony! 

Well, we all have our tastes...

[BachQ]

Try: www.elgar.org

There's also PlanetPoju.com ............

[Mark G. Simon]

Dvorak's Bells of Zlonice?  (Anybody?  Anybody?)

Khachaturian?  (Can you even find a recording of it?)

Copland?   

How many people have I just outraged with these suggestions?   0:)

Dvorak's 1st is indeed a horror story. Easily the worst first symphony by a great symphonist.

Elgar's 1st is pretty darn good. I like the 2nd better, but the first ain't chopped liver.

I haven't heard Copland's 1st -- ie, the Organ Symphony shorn of its solo instrument -- but the Organ Symphony itself is really a terrific score, and I feel confident that Copland was capable of incorporating all the solo part into the orchestra without harming the work's aesthetic impact.

Also in regard to bad first symphonies, I think we can also add Stravinsky's Symphony in E flat to the list of stinkers. It's pretty good for a student work, and a respectable effort for a no-name hack, but for a composer of Stravinsky's stature it's surely an embarrassment.

[71 dB]

Try: www.elgar.org

I visit there often but they don't have a discussion board so I can't communicate with anyone. 

[Mark G. Simon]

Now you also know there's at least a second.






EDIT: That being said, I'll check Amazon.com to order Debussy's second rhapsody for clarinet.

Let me know when you find it! I'd love to hear it. 

[71 dB]

Elgar's 1st is pretty darn good. I like the 2nd better, but the first ain't chopped liver.

Finally support! Thanks Mark G. Simon! 

Those who understand Elgar know the 2nd is even better than the first.