The Worst First!

[71 dB]

Joseph. Nobody cares about Michael. 

Michael Haydn isn't as great as Dittersdorf but he is ok, I enjoy his divertimentos.  0:)

[jochanaan]

Michael Haydn just missed being a truly great composer.  He had the same problem as Modest Mussorgsky--too fond of liquor.  (Mozart once did M. Haydn a favor by composing a quartet Haydn had been commissioned to write and giving it to him, thereby saving his job. )  I've read that Josef Haydn said more than once that his brother was better at church music than he was.

[jochanaan]

The Member is fortunate to be able to find something in Shostacowitch's later works to amuse him; we on the other hand are obliged to confess that we find in them nothing either to hold our attention or to attract our admiration.

I can't argue with that.

Musical logic - that is after all the great thing in composition is it not?

Only one of them.  Evocation of emotions is the other great thing.  And in that, DSch is second to none and equal to many--at least, I find him so.

[Haffner]

Michael Haydn just missed being a truly great composer.  He had the same problem as Modest Mussorgsky--too fond of liquor.  (Mozart once did M. Haydn a favor by composing a quartet Haydn had been commissioned to write and giving it to him, thereby saving his job. )  I've read that Josef Haydn said more than once that his brother was better at church music than he was.

You are very close in regard to Mozart writing M. Haydn's stuff. But it was actually a pair of phenomenally brilliant string duos. Haydn had been too busy getting drunk to finish a set of six for the Archbishop, so Mozart did the last two. It's hard to believe the Archbishop didn't notice the difference, as those two String Duets are two of the finest works Mozart ever produced.

[Valentino]

Can you recommend recordings of these string duos, Haffner?

[val]

To me, the best version is the one with Vera Beths (violin) and Jürgen Kussmaul (viola), in a CD that also includes the version for Sextet of the Sinfonia Concertante K 364 (SONY).

By the way, regarding Michael Haydn although he had not the talent of Josef he was a good composer. And he influenced Mozart in special in his String Quintets.

To have an idea of Michael Haydn quality, people should listen to some of his string quintets, in special the Quintet in G major. There is a very good interpretation, by the Archibudelli (SONY).

[Valentino]

Great, val. Thank you.

[Haffner]

V. , I can't reccomend this cd to you enough. It's got the best Divertimento in Eb I've ever heard with a really good recording and performance and just wait until you hear k 266!!!

[snyprrr]

sorry, couldn't help myself

ROGER SESSIONS SYM NO.1- it made me angry. i'm getting mad just thinking about it

LOU HARRISON symphony on G- not his first symphony, but the only sym i know "on" a note rather than "in" a key. however, it's 12tone,...look, i don't even want to
                                                     listen to it just to remind myself....but i know it makes me very mad, so i stay away.

also, CHARLES WUORINEN'S 1st string quartet makes me mad in the exact same way.


...find the happy place...find the....

[Dundonnell]

sorry, couldn't help myself

ROGER SESSIONS SYM NO.1- it made me angry. i'm getting mad just thinking about it

LOU HARRISON symphony on G- not his first symphony, but the only sym i know "on" a note rather than "in" a key. however, it's 12tone,...look, i don't even want to
                                                     listen to it just to remind myself....but i know it makes me very mad, so i stay away.

also, CHARLES WUORINEN'S 1st string quartet makes me mad in the exact same way.


...find the happy place...find the....

What's wrong with Sessions' 1st Symphony ? It is a lot easier on the ear than his later, more complex symphonies Or is that what's wrong with it?

And, Lou Harrison's Symphony on G is, I believe, his first symphony. Harrison wrote four in total-the Symphony on G(1948-54), the 2nd 'Elegiac'(1942-75), the 3rd(1937-82) and the 4th 'Last Symphony'(1990-95).

[snyprrr]

i have enjoyed a lot of harrison, and his elegiac and 3rd, and piano concerto, and mass all seem to enjoy harrison's "classical" style. big meaty first movement of epic pacific sweep. i especially used to love the elegiac, coupled with hovaness on the cd. and i really like the mass...that's my favorite harrison sound.

i thought the sym on g was from the 60s, but....i ...i....i...i don't even want to listen to it to refresh my memory. i think it's just not what i wanted from this
composer.

i know, if i'm gonna say this stuff i should maybe listen to it again,....but i'm scurrred!!! however, the ruggles pieces on the same cri cd are MANDATORY!!!haha

i think the sessions reminded me of aspects of 1920s copland that i'm not to fond of. i think sessions' 2nd is a verrry noble work, and of course the classic 3rd sym NEEDS A MODERN RECORDING NOW!!!...YEEESH, WHAT'S UP MR. DAVIES? also, sessions' piano concerto. i think the 3rd sym and piano cto show mature (read, difficult) sessions in the best light. but yes, i do like everything else i've heard from him, though...i must say i worked on a lot of it, but i personally think that late honegger, pettersson, and sessions have a few things in common, sonically speaking.

[Cleo Telerín]

I think I don't dislike any 1st. Maybe Scriabin's, but just the finale.

[Mark G. Simon]

sorry, couldn't help myself

ROGER SESSIONS SYM NO.1- it made me angry. i'm getting mad just thinking about it

Not that I enjoy being made angry by music, but I think that if a piece of music affects you to the point that you become angry, it must have something special about it. I sometimes find that if I set out do figure out what it is about a piece of music that makes me angry, by the time I've come up with an answer I've decided I actually like it.

[greg]

Not that I enjoy being made angry by music, but I think that if a piece of music affects you to the point that you become angry, it must have something special about it. I sometimes find that if I set out do figure out what it is about a piece of music that makes me angry, by the time I've come up with an answer I've decided I actually like it.

This has happened to me with some of my very favorite music.

Of course, there's exceptions, such as nearly anything with the "American" sound to it. It just makes me bored, disgusted, then angry. 

[Brahmsian]

Yes, in Germany you always eat the Wurst first!   

But we are talking about SYMPHONIES now!

Since the forum loves lists and rankings, how about your opinions on the Worst First Symphony by a composer?

Dvorak's Bells of Zlonice?  (Anybody?  Anybody?)

Khachaturian?  (Can you even find a recording of it?)

Copland?   

How many people have I just outraged with these suggestions?   0:)

*Bump* 

[Karl Henning]

A little (but only a little) embarrassed that I am unsure which came first, Copland's Dance Symphony or the Short Symphony. (Or is the Organ Symphony first?) I think them all good pieces, though.

[Sergeant Rock]

A little (but only a little) embarrassed that I am unsure which came first, Copland's Dance Symphony or the Short Symphony. (Or is the Organ Symphony first?) I think them all good pieces, though.

Karl, do you still think the Elgar is the worst First?

Sarge

[Brian]

Karl, do you still think the Elgar is the worst First?

Sarge

This morning I read this thread all the way through and god, the Elgar-bashing stuff is completely embarrassing. That had to be a low point in GMG history. I'm glad everyone got over their collective lunacy and put a little Elgar back in their hearts.

[Karl Henning]

Karl, do you still think the Elgar is the worst First?

Sarge

No! Apart from any other dynamic at the time, those were days when I largely failed to see the merits of the symphonies. I rejoice that the ears are "getting bigger" all the time.

[Sergeant Rock]

This morning I read this thread all the way through and god, the Elgar-bashing stuff is completely embarrassing. That had to be a low point in GMG history. I'm glad everyone got over their collective lunacy and put a little Elgar back in their hearts.

I never read these old threads without a certain amount of trepidation

Sarge