The Worst First!

Started by Cato, December 11, 2007, 11:29:07 AM

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Brahmsian

Quote from: Brian on October 26, 2013, 06:12:24 AM
This morning I read this thread all the way through and god, the Elgar-bashing stuff is completely embarrassing. That had to be a low point in GMG history. I'm glad everyone got over their collective lunacy and put a little Elgar back in their hearts.

Well said Brian.  The other day, I was looking through the 'Composer Discussion' forum.  The first three 'locked' threads that I found, happened to all be Elgar threads.  ;D

Karl Henning

Maybe the worst Firsts were Schuman and Wuorinen, since the composers themselves withdrew them.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: ChamberNut on October 26, 2013, 04:52:33 AM
*Bump*  :D

Your memory is better than mine, Nut!  8)

Although I still would like to think Cato doesn't really dislike the Dvorak but was merely using that as an example to get the thread started. Maybe Cato will chime in.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Brahmsian

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 26, 2013, 06:28:52 AM
Your memory is better than mine, Nut!  8)

Although I still would like to think Cato doesn't really dislike the Dvorak but was merely using that as an example to get the thread started. Maybe Cato will chime in.

Sarge

I agree, Sarge.  I have a feeling Cato may not have been completely serious about this.  Either way, I'm fine with it.  :)

Cato

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on October 26, 2013, 06:28:52 AM
Your memory is better than mine, Nut!  8)

Although I still would like to think Cato doesn't really dislike the Dvorak but was merely using that as an example to get the thread started. Maybe Cato will chime in.

Sarge

Wow!  Did I start this in 2007???!!!

And yes, I was just throwing out possibilities: certainly the Dvorak has its weak moments, but is not the worst symphony by any means.

And yes, the almost immediate dislike of the Elgar First was astonishing!  ???

I "googled" the phrase "worst first symphony" and found - besides our own topic - a wise guy named Thomas Wood who claimed Bruckner  :o  wrote the worst first symphony, and the worst second, third, etc...  Even the worst "0 and 00" symphony.

Rene Leibowitz
thought the same thing of Sibelius.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Brian

Quote from: Cato on October 26, 2013, 07:00:41 AM
Rene Leibowitz[/b] thought the same thing of Sibelius.

A few years ago I had the pleasure of reading, and translating from the French (with a little help from my friends), Leibowitz's pamphlet, "Sibelius, the Worst Composer in the World." I need to upload that somewhere!

Parsifal

Virgil Thompson's "Symphony on a Hymm Tune" has to be the worst thing I have ever heard labeled as a symphony.  I understand he wrote others, but for all I know they are worse.

Brian

Quote from: Scarpia on October 26, 2013, 07:30:51 AM
Virgil Thompson's "Symphony on a Hymm Tune" has to be the worst thing I have ever heard labeled as a symphony.  I understand he wrote others, but for all I know they are worse.

Since you recently said similar things about Panufnik's Seventh (I think?) and I listened and thought, "meh, boring," I am going to load this on NML now, and probably think, "meh, boring."

Brian

#268
Quote from: Scarpia on October 26, 2013, 07:30:51 AM
Virgil Thompson's "Symphony on a Hymm Tune" has to be the worst thing I have ever heard labeled as a symphony.  I understand he wrote others, but for all I know they are worse.

Okay yeah this piece is pretty annoying. It's one of very few works I've heard where you can't use what happened previously to explain or justify what happens next. So far the only thing I've remembered was a five-second snippet that sounded like "Blazing Saddles." That said, it's not actively offensive or anything.

EDIT: I spoke too soon! The second movement is kinda nice.
EDIT: Hey, "Blazing Saddles" came back in the scherzo!

Sergeant Rock

#269
It's so thoroughly American, simple and direct, in its tunes and rhythms, I almost feel obligated to like it  ;)  And I do. The use of hymns reminds me of Ives (without the dissonance and complexity) and Copland (without the genius). The "Jesus Loves Me" cracks me up...and makes me nostalgic.

"We all loved his music and rarely performed it." --Lenny

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Brian

Yeah, now reaching the end, it's not that great and the first movement kind of stinks, but it's just some populist grubbing. And it makes me think of "Blazing Saddles." It's certainly no worse than the worst symphonies of, say, Bruch, Spohr, or A. Rubinstein.

Sergeant Rock

#271
Quote from: Brian on October 26, 2013, 07:45:52 AM
Okay yeah this piece is pretty annoying. It's one of very few works I've heard where you can't use what happened previously to explain or justify what happens next.

Forget the fact he called it a symphony, which implies a logical and dramatic progression, and think of the first movement as a series of dance pieces, variations on the hymn tune. That's how Thomson described it. Works for me.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Parsifal

#272
Maybe the fact that I do not recognize any of the hymn tunes is interfering with my appreciation, but it struck me as very crudely naive, as though it was written as background music for a Bugs Bunny cartoon.  I listened to the Hansons/Eastman recording on Mercury (on the same disc as the interesting Sessions Black Maskers suite and a really bad piece by someone named McPhee, I think).

Daverz

Quote from: Brian on October 26, 2013, 08:01:24 AM
And it makes me think of "Blazing Saddles."

<wakes from a nap>  Er, whuh, Blazing Saddles?  I've got to hear this.  Is there a prominent part for bassoons?

Brian

Quote from: Daverz on October 26, 2013, 03:03:21 PM
<wakes from a nap>  Er, whuh, Blazing Saddles?  I've got to hear this.  Is there a prominent part for bassoons?
Nah, it's just that the hymn tune that features in every movement bear a suspicious resemblance to the tune "He rode a blazing saddle." The tune also shows up in David Bedford's Symphony No. 1, which is even more fun (and shorter, also, iirc).

vandermolen

Quote from: Cato on December 11, 2007, 11:29:07 AM
Yes, in Germany you always eat the Wurst first!   8)

But we are talking about SYMPHONIES now!

Since the forum loves lists and rankings, how about your opinions on the Worst First Symphony by a composer?

Dvorak's Bells of Zlonice?  (Anybody?  Anybody?)

Khachaturian?  (Can you even find a recording of it?)

Copland?   :o

How many people have I just outraged with these suggestions?   0:)


Oh, I really like the Khachaturian and the Copland too.

Personally I dislike Prokofiev's 'Classical Symphony' but it is generally much admired and very tuneful.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

kyjo


TheGSMoeller

Quote from: kyjo on October 27, 2013, 10:56:01 AM
Mozart's 0:)

You basically just told an 8 year old he's the worst. You bully.  :P  ;D

Mirror Image

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 27, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
You basically just told an 8 year old he's the worst. You bully.  :P  ;D

:P I just spilt my my drink after reading this!!!! LOL!

kyjo

Quote from: TheGSMoeller on October 27, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
You basically just told an 8 year old he's the worst. You bully.  :P  ;D

:laugh: