Started by aquablob, April 06, 2007, 02:42:33 PM
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QuoteWhoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
QuoteHe that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
QuoteThere is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
QuoteThey will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, the time is coming when anyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God
QuoteAh, God, how much heartachedo I encounter at this time!The narrow path is full of troublethat I shall follow to heaven.The Antichrist,the great monster,seeks with sword and fireto persecute the members of Christ,since their teachings are against him.He makes it appearthat his deeds must be pleasing to God.However, Christians must resemble palm fronds,which, when laden, only climb higher.It is and remains the comfort of Christians,that God watches over His church.For even though the storms rage,yet after the winds of troublethe sun of joy soon smiled.
Quoteanyone who kills you will think they are offering a service to God
QuoteHe makes it appearthat his deeds must be pleasing to God.
QuoteThe Jews impersonating medics deprive of life and property the Christians who take their medication, for they suppose they do God a service if they intensely torment the Christians and secretly kill them
QuoteThis is a distorted view of the gospel as it fails to take into account that the writer of John's gospel and Jesus himself were Jews. All of the early Christians were Jews. So to take the view that the Jews as a whole were the 'enemy' is something completely foreign to the gospel. What the gospel points out is those who rejected Jesus and put him to death who were both Jewish leaders (not the common people who gathered to hear Jesus and his message) and the Roman authorities.Your point about John 3:18 is puzzling as it is a general point about the whole of mankind - it is in the context of 'God so loved the world' - and is not just applicable to Jews. Again John 3:36 is a statement for the whole of mankind and why do you emphasise the negative aspect of the verse without the positive aspect also?.
QuoteIt's interesting this alleged anti-Semitism obviously comes from some utterly regrettable tracks by Martin Luther which were written by the end of his life and are full of his usual explosive invective and which admirers fervently wish had never been written. Sometimes alleged anti-Semitism in John comes from the confusion that John often uses the term 'the Jews' for the Jewish ruling classes ie the priestly factions, with whom Jesus had the discussions and the disagreements, not the general Jewish populous. It was 'the Jews' and not the common people who plotted to put Jesus to death, Something that John makes quite clear. The common people wanted to make him king. The Priestley factions plotted his death.I found an interesting comment in the New Yorker which is helpful I think to quote:'Is the Passion's savage depiction of the Jews simply the work of a master storyteller? It is surely that, but not simply that. Bach's own attitude becomes clearer in his music and in the poetry of the choruses and arias with which he surrounds John's narrative.An early chorale, for example, "Wer hat dich so geschlagen," asks of the wounded Jesus, "Who has struck you so?" The second verse answers, "Ich, ich und meine Sünden": "I" — we all, that is Protestant, Catholic and Jew alike — "I and my sins."Here, as Mr. Marissen notes in his book "Bach & God" (2016), "Bach moves the focus away from the perfidy of 'the Jews' and onto the sins of Christian believers." And the work as a whole moves in an epic arc from turmoil to profound fellow-feeling and consolation, from inhumanity for the sake of effect, as it were, to a humanity deeply felt and registered.'This of course fits in well with Christian theology which believes that although it was the Jewish rulers with the agreement of the Roman authorities who put Jesus to death, it was in fact our sins that nailed him to the cross. Early in Johns Gospel the statement "behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world " makes the point. So JSB is just following normal Christian theological tradition. There is no anti-Semitism about it just because JSB sets it in a tremendous drama
Quote from: SurprisedByBeauty on December 30, 2019, 12:43:52 PMIt might be pointed out that Luther turned against the Jews late in life; cranky and most likely out of the outraged disappointment that now that he had cleared Christianity of all the legitimate hurdles that might keep one from embracing the true faith, they STILL didn't convert in huge numbers. That doesn't excuse his diatribes and it's a simplified depiction, obviously, but I think it sets the scene to better understand what was going on with him and in his writings.
Quote from: milk on August 12, 2020, 02:54:08 AMNo talk of Bach recently. Without that, my life suddenly has less meaning. Also, I have so much Bach that I don't know what I need to hear right now. Help!
Quote from: Biffo on August 14, 2020, 04:34:25 AMAs this thread seems a bit open ended I will ask a question (for anybody interested). What is your favourite Bach aria? I realise many people will have dozens but mine is the beautiful recitative Am Abend da es kühle war followed by the aria Mache dich, mein Herze, rein from the St Matthew Passion. Possibly my favourite version is Cornelius Hauptmann in Gardiner's recording (DG Archiv)
Quote from: Biffo on August 14, 2020, 04:34:25 AMWhat is your favourite Bach aria?
Quote from: ritter on August 14, 2020, 06:03:05 AMMy favourite Bach aria is this marvel:https://www.youtube.com/v/4XeuHyWpTLE"Tief gebückt und voller Reue" from Mein Herze schwimmt im Blut BWV 199. And I haven't chosen Dawn Upshaw' s recording by chance; it is a close to perfect as I can imagine... And in No. 2 position, "Zerfliesse, mein Herze" from the St. John Passion, BWV 245. I'm particularly fond of Evelyn Lear in this (my first exposure to the aria decades ago).https://www.youtube.com/v/R8bP0bub9IM
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