Bach's Bungalow

Started by aquablob, April 06, 2007, 02:42:33 PM

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Mandryka

#700
I forgot about this one - somehow in my head I only remembered the chaconne but there's also 1001 and 1004. The playing is very expressive - 1001 fugue presented like it's music in the empfindsamer style - a certain loss of poise but the sacrifice may be worth it.

https://www.discogs.com/release/17819872-Johann-Sebastian-Bach-Emma-Kirkby-Carlos-Mena-2-Jos%C3%A9-Miguel-Moreno-De-Occulta-Philosophia

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

SonicMan46

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on July 29, 2022, 01:37:59 PM
Just going through my plucked Bach (excluding harpsichord) at greater leisure.



Hopkinson Smith has also done the Partita for Solo Flute on lute!
This was one of my earliest discs (bought around 1989) and still in the catalogue! The Lute Suite (=Cello Suite 5) is very fine, Allemande particularly.

 

Slava Grigoryan plays the Bach Cello Suites on two disks on a baritone guitar, which is a very fine instrument. I don't normally like guitar music because of the overtones (acoustic not cultural), but this instrument has fine overtones. He uses a normal clasical guitar for the Sixth Suite       

Thanks calyptorhynchus for pointing out Grigoryan (already have plenty of Smith & North as shown in my previous post) - listened to his Vol. 1 on Spotify and greatly enjoyed the guitar sound and the lower tuning - but hard to find the physical discs; both are at PrestoMusic for $15.50 each (plus usually $2 shipping per CD for me 'across the pond'); more expensive at JPC and used copies priced ridiculously at Discogs; otherwise DLs which I rarely do.  Just put together a playlist of both volumes on Spotify - will take a listen on my den stereo.  Dave :)

SonicMan46

Quote from: Mandryka on July 30, 2022, 09:43:53 AM
If you can access it, see what you think of Matthias Kläger's recordings. Guitar. They just caught my attention as rather poetic, that's all.

They're on Spotify here in the UK, and on YouTube. This is the link that I'm using

https://open.spotify.com/album/3CM10MvcyyhoULzV6CXcfb

https://www.discogs.com/sell/release/14609661?ev=rb

Hi Mandryka - was able to listen to Kläger this morning on Spotify - excellent!  For those looking closely at the cover, he is doing only the sonatas from the 'Sonatas & Partitas' set (BWV 1001-1006).  For those wanting all 6 works on guitar, I own the Frank Bungarten 2-disc set from MDG (excellent review here); also have Hopkinson Smith on a baroque lute (MP3 DL - physical discs outrageously expensive or maybe I've not looked hard enough -  ::))  Dave :)

 

Mandryka



BWV 1006 is for me not an easy suite for violinists and I can't really think of anyone who makes it sound as interesting as Asperen does here
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

calyptorhynchus

I understand that BWV1006 is easier to play a Baroque violin than a modern one, though still a superhuman achievement.
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

Mandryka

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on August 05, 2022, 11:38:42 PM
I understand that BWV1006 is easier to play a Baroque violin than a modern one, though still a superhuman achievement.

That's interesting - I remember enjoying it on viol. This one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNXr-Zp3hYo&ab_channel=SusanneHeinrich-Topic
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

calyptorhynchus

Quote from: Mandryka on August 06, 2022, 12:54:21 AM
That's interesting - I remember enjoying it on viol. This one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNXr-Zp3hYo&ab_channel=SusanneHeinrich-Topic

Thanks, I'll listen to that, I'm always ready to listen to Bach arrangements. Funny that any more recent music seems to resist arrangement much more.

As to the Baroque violin I think the bridge is flatter so it's easier to bow chords. Modern violins raised the bridge so the strings are fractionally further apart, meaning you can play notes louder... please any violinists correct this if it's wrong.
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

JBS

There were also some differences between Baroque and modern bows that affect playing technique.

There's also something called the curved bow which supposedly was in use in Bach's day. I have this.

It's been years since I listened to it, but I don't remember hearing any important differences from standard bows.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

premont

Quote from: JBS on August 06, 2022, 01:34:44 PM
There were also some differences between Baroque and modern bows that affect playing technique.

There's also something called the curved bow which supposedly was in use in Bach's day. I have this.

It's been years since I listened to it, but I don't remember hearing any important differences from standard bows.

I culled this some years ago.

Firstly I didn't think his interpretation was that engaging.

Secondly he lets the long notes sound a bit longer than on can do with a standard bow, but since one already hears the notes in question in one's inner ear, his efforts add nothing of practical interest.
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calyptorhynchus

Listening once again to JSB's Preludes and Fugues for organ. Just amazing...

However, as always, they leave me thinking why did no one else write anything that gets within any distance of the Bach. I do have disks of music by Buxtehude and Pachelbel, but they aren't anything like the Bach.

I have to say very little other organ music does it for me.

Any suggestions as to how I might change my mind?
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

Mandryka

#710
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on July 23, 2023, 12:35:58 AMListening once again to JSB's Preludes and Fugues for organ. Just amazing...

However, as always, they leave me thinking why did no one else write anything that gets within any distance of the Bach. I do have disks of music by Buxtehude and Pachelbel, but they aren't anything like the Bach.

I have to say very little other organ music does it for me.

Any suggestions as to how I might change my mind?

It's really hard to know how to respond to this. Bach was very good at writing music, but there were others who were not bad too.

What I suggest is this - buy a good compilation set like Leonhardt's Organ in the Renaissance and Barqoue - that way you'll hear a wide selection of other composers and you can see which ones tickle your fancy.

This

https://www.classicselectworld.com/products/ammerbach-blitheman-bohm-organ-in-renaissance-baroque


Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

JBS

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on July 23, 2023, 12:35:58 AMListening once again to JSB's Preludes and Fugues for organ. Just amazing...

However, as always, they leave me thinking why did no one else write anything that gets within any distance of the Bach. I do have disks of music by Buxtehude and Pachelbel, but they aren't anything like the Bach.

I have to say very little other organ music does it for me.

Any suggestions as to how I might change my mind?

Try Krebs.
He was a student of Bach, and it shows, but he wasn't a mere imitator of his teacher.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Florestan on November 05, 2023, 10:08:09 AMIn another thread I sarcastically alluded to a fictitious transcription of Johannes-Passion for solo violin. Little did I suspect that I wasn't actually far off the reality mark: Mozart's Requiem has been transcribed for solo piano! Human vainglory has indeed no limits. ( @Madiel;D

on a slight tangent there is a theory that the famous Bach Toccata & Fugue in D minor started out as a solo violin work (apparently there is no manuscript original) so you can - allegedly authentically - play a solo violin version of said Toccata & Fugue - enjoy!

Florestan

Quote from: Roasted Swan on November 05, 2023, 10:41:17 AMthere is a theory that the famous Bach Toccata & Fugue in D minor started out as a solo violin work (apparently there is no manuscript original)

Who came up with this theory and what is the basis for it, I wonder?
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

premont

Quote from: Florestan on November 05, 2023, 10:45:02 AMWho came up with this theory and what is the basis for it, I wonder?

We had a long discussion of the BWV 565 in the Bach on the organ thread around 2011 from post 1322:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,638.1320.html
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Steinway D

#715
Quote from: Florestan on November 05, 2023, 10:45:02 AMWho came up with this theory and what is the basis for it, I wonder?

The theory that it might have been a work for a string instrument (I've read that in addition to violin, cello or lute might have been a possibility) and was later transcribed for organ, is that the fugue subject is not as thoroughly developed as are most of Bach's keyboard fugues since strings can't cope with as much counterpoint, and it does not lie as idiomatically under the fingers on a keyboard as it does on string instruments.

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Florestan on November 05, 2023, 10:45:02 AMWho came up with this theory and what is the basis for it, I wonder?


I seem to remember that the edition I have somewhere is by Baroque specialist Jaap Schroder and that it includes a forward that explains his reasoning for this reconstruction.  But I see online/on YouTube now there are quite a lot of other arrangements as well.  No idea how scholarly many/any of them are.  It is rather fun to play though as a solo violinist.... sorry

JBS

Quote from: Steinway D on November 05, 2023, 12:00:51 PMThe theory that it might have been a work for a string instrument (I've read that in addition to violin, cello or lute might have been a possibility) and was later transcribed for organ, is that the fugue subject is not as thoroughly developed as are most of Bach's keyboard fugues since strings can't cope with as much counterpoint, and it does not lie as idiomatically under the fingers on a keyboard as it does on string instruments.

I have Manze's recording. At least in the version he played it sounds native to the violin.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Madiel

Quote from: Steinway D on November 05, 2023, 12:00:51 PMThe theory that it might have been a work for a string instrument (I've read that in addition to violin, cello or lute might have been a possibility) and was later transcribed for organ, is that the fugue subject is not as thoroughly developed as are most of Bach's keyboard fugues since strings can't cope with as much counterpoint, and it does not lie as idiomatically under the fingers on a keyboard as it does on string instruments.

Well, another potential reason for it not being as thoroughly developed as a Bach keyboard fugue would be it might not be by Bach...
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Steinway D

Quote from: Madiel on November 06, 2023, 01:29:40 AMWell, another potential reason for it not being as thoroughly developed as a Bach keyboard fugue would be it might not be by Bach...
Well, yes, there's that!  :)