Kirsten Flagstad with Lieder

[wagnernn]

I've heard Flagstad sings many Lieder of Strauss, Mahler, Grieg,Wagner.In "four last song",I think she made a legendary record as well as Schwarzkopf (maybe it can surpass the records of Janowitz,Norman,Casa...) .In "Kindertotenlieder", her record may surpass the ones by many mezzo sropano and alto (J.Baker,Ferrier, Tourel....).
I'm quite surprised  that a Wagnerian soprano can sing beautifully in the field of lieder in which my most favourite Wag.soprano,Birgit Nilsson can't mark her style.

[The new erato]

I've heard Flagstad sings many Lieder of Strauss, Mahler, Grieg,Wagner.In "four last song",I think she made a legendary record as well as Schwarzkopf (maybe it can surpass the records of Janowitz,Norman,Casa...) .In "Kindertotenlieder", her record may surpass the ones by many mezzo sropano and alto (J.Baker,Ferrier, Tourel....).
I'm quite surprised  that a Wagnerian soprano can sing beautifully in the field of lieder in which my most favourite Wag.soprano,Birgit Nilsson can't mark her style.

The Vier letszte Lieder were dedicated to her and premiered by her I think.

[knight66]

That is correct.

I have not found very much detail in her lieder. It is a strange alchemy. If a singer puts detail into opera, why so often is that not enough for lieder? The two types of vocalisation have a lot in common, but there are important differences. On stage the whole body is used, what you see is important as well as what you hear. Certainly in Flagstad's time it was bad form to physically emote on the concert platform. Even now, recital is much more constrained in physicality than the opera stage. Opera singers do tend to use broader strokes; as they have to surmount an orchestra and fill a large space. They also have to consider their colleagues on stage, most obviously in duet.

A lot of lieder was written for piano accompaniment and for more intimate spaces. The voice is more exposed and every fault comes under the spotlight. The songs mentioned above do have orchestral accompaniment, but it is less likely the singer will have to fight to be heard properly, as the orchestration is less sonorous than Verdi or Wagner at full pelt.

Of course there are singers who certainly cross any divide between song and opera, but I don't feel Flagstad was one of them. Her singing is always honest and direct; but I look for more colouring of the words.

Mike

[wagnernn]

Can you name some singers who are fantastic in both of Opera and Lieder? Let's discuss about Tetrazzini and Ponselle.I 've listened to some performances of them with many Lieder by Grieg,Mahler and some chansons  by Massenet,Faure....These are suited with Ponselle ,but not for Tetrazzini!

[knight66]

Sorry, but although I have heard some tracks by both Tetrazzini and Ponselle; it was many years ago and I have nothing sensible to say about either of them. As to singers who could cross the divide; off the top of my head...

Hans Hotter, Boris Christoff, Deitrich Fischer-Dieskau, Bryn Terfel, Janet Baker, Christa Ludwig, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Arleen Auger.

All of these manage the grand gesture and the detail.

Mike

[Wendell_E]

As to singers who could cross the divide; off the top of my head...

Hans Hotter, Boris Christoff, Deitrich Fischer-Dieskau, Bryn Terfel, Janet Baker, Christa Ludwig, Elizabeth Schwarzkopf, Arleen Auger.

I'll add Simon Keenlyside and Thomas Hampson.  I'm sure I'll think of others.

[wagnernn]

I agree with you about Fischer-Dieskau, Boris Christoff  Janet Baker ,and Christa Ludwid. In my opinion, Schwarzkopf,however,isn't the singers who can master both of lieder and opera.I know that she can sing some coloratura roles (in early of her career),and during her career,Schwarzskopf sang many roles by Mozart,Wagner,R.Strauss.All most of those records had become legendary and I always enjoy them very much!.But I think that her rich and wonderful experiences of Lieder just appeared in the late of her career,when her voice lacked its soar and brilliance but became sweet and more "academic".I love both of 2 records 'four last songs",but I prefer to the one with Szelll because her voice touched its perfection of singing Lieder at that time.

[knight66]

I don't really agree about the transition of Schwarzkopf. She was a lieder singer from early on in her career also singing a deal of Bach.
Here are a couple of quotes from an obituary in the Guardian.

"From the outset of her career she divided her time between the operatic stage and the concert platform, becoming equally adept in both worlds."

" Schwarzkopf gained her first knowledge of lieder from Ivogün and from Ivogün's second husband, accompanist Michael Raucheisen, who recruited Schwarzkopf for his ambitious wartime project of recording whole swathes of the lieder repertory. These were preserved on early tape, and issued later on disc. They show Schwarzkopf's voice in its youthful prime."

I recall that the Wolf Society discs made by her under the direction of Walter Legge were in the 1950s. As I suggested, she was a singer who moved successfully between the two genres. Having retired from the stage, she did continue to sing in recital beyond the time that was wise. But her early and mid career has plenty of instances of excelling on stage and platform.

Mike

[Michel]

Blackhead is overated.

[knight66]

There sem to be quite a lot of people then who over-rate her. She was certainly fortunate to marry someone who was in a position to do her career so much good; but I don't recollect a single recording that was not of a work that was well suited to her talents.

Anyway....you still did not tell me who is in your copy of Ariadne!

Mike

[wagnernn]

What do you think about Flagstad with her Fruhling in four last song?

[knight66]

Sorry, I don't have that performance. I have heard it and had it on LP. But because I did not connect well with it, I did not replace it on CD once I got rid of the vinyl. It must be 18 years since I heard it. So I cannot recall anything that would be useful to say beyond what I have already said.

Mike

[wagnernn]

Did Flagsatd sing any Wolf's Lieder?