Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)

Started by MISHUGINA, December 16, 2007, 01:46:47 AM

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Old San Antone

I have just been listening to a new recording of the sonatas and partitas by Leila Schayegh.



These are period performances, she uses a Baroque violin and bow, and as is usually the case Glossa produced an excellent recording.  I like her playing, there's some grit and flare. 


Selig

Any thoughts on the new one from Papavrami?



I intend to listen to the first one which he made 17 years ago. With the new recording he is attempting to create something more rhythmically complex, livelier, in his own words.

Mandryka

#302
Quote from: Selig on September 25, 2021, 05:06:52 PM
Any thoughts on the new one from Papavrami?



I intend to listen to the first one which he made 17 years ago. With the new recording he is attempting to create something more rhythmically complex, livelier, in his own words.


I think this is an unusual recording which I intend to explore. It is the most austere performance of these pieces I can remember hearing. My first impression is --  and this may be unfair -- is that it is a needless and pointless exercise and the music gains nothing by his approach, but loses its expressiveness, its affect.  I hope to find the positives later.


Deleted, in a manner of speaking, because more close listening reveals interesting things going on a least some of the time. Not completely deleted because I want signal that this is an interesting if ultimately unsatisfactory recording in a field crowded with excellent but no.pt very interesting performances.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Spotted Horses

I owned Kremer, and seem to have lost it!



Debating whether to get it again, but that makes me feel stupid. :(
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

premont

#304
Quote from: Mandryka on September 28, 2021, 07:12:13 AM

I think this is an unusual recording which I intend to explore. It is the most austere performance of these pieces I can remember hearing. My first impression is --  and this may be unfair -- is that it is a needless and pointless exercise and the music gains nothing by his approach, but loses its expressiveness, its affect.  I hope to find the positives later.


Deleted, in a manner of speaking, because more close listening reveals interesting things going on a least some of the time. Not completely deleted because I want signal that this is an interesting if ultimately unsatisfactory recording in a field crowded with excellent but no.pt very interesting performances.

Excuse me saying hmm... again. Thinking it over I shall pass it by (own too many recordings of these works already), unless you conclude, that it is mandatory.

BTW how does it compare to Ryo Terakado's recording?

Afterthought: I suppose Papavrami is playing a modern instrument?
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premont

Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 28, 2021, 07:40:51 AM
I owned Kremer, and seem to have lost it!



Debating whether to get it again, but that makes me feel stupid. :(

Honestly, you may use the occation to replace it by some better recording and feel clever instead.  :)
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Mandryka

Quote from: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 11:44:27 AM

BTW how does it compare to Ryo Terakado's recording?


Well, I'm not going to answer that.

Here's the booklet, it'll give you an idea of what's going on

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/22/000142522.pdf

Quote'. To achieve expression, he has evidently chosen to confine himself to phrasing and sound.
He does this partly with miniscule gradations in the lengths of the notes, in their articulation and their
breathing, whether ephemeral or emphatic, so the musical discourse can be followed in the same
way as a text spoken by a great actor able to make even the densest discourse transparently clear.

In fact that approach to expressiveness seems to be there sometimes, but not all the time. But I've only listened to 1002 and 1003 -- and probably not carefully.

(Yes modern instrument)

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Spotted Horses

#308
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 11:48:27 AM
Honestly, you may use the occation to replace it by some better recording and feel clever instead.  :)

When I listen to the excepts it seems very good to me. :) A bit iconoclastic.

I already have quite a few sets. Grumiaux, Szeryng, Millstein (2), Podger, Wallfisch, Hugget, Zehetmair, Kagan, Ibragimova, Fischer, Beyer, Heifitz, Mullova, Sitkovetsky. What would be better?
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

premont

Quote from: Mandryka on September 28, 2021, 12:32:39 PM
Well, I'm not going to answer that.

Here's the booklet, it'll give you an idea of what's going on

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/22/000142522.pdf

In fact that approach to expressiveness seems to be there sometimes, but not all the time. But I've only listened to 1002 and 1003 -- and probably not carefully.

(Yes modern instrument)

Thanks for your preliminary review. It sounds as if his approach to some extent is HIP influenced in the vein of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt. I shall listen to some clips and then decide whether to get it or not.
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premont

Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 28, 2021, 12:59:24 PM
When I listen to the excepts it seems very good to me. :) A bit iconoclastic.

I already have quite a few sets. Grumiaux, Szeryng, Millstein (2), Podger, Wallfisch, Hugget, Zehetmair, Kagan, Ibragimova, Fischer, Beyer, Heifitz, Mullova, Sitkovetsky. What would be better?

I didn't know you had that many, at least five of my favorites among them. So you have probably no need for a repurchase of Kremer, unless you find him exceptional.
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Spotted Horses

#311
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 01:17:41 PM
I didn't know you had that many, at least five of my favorites among them. So you have probably no need for a repurchase of Kremer, unless you find him exceptional.

Curious, which do you consider favorites. (A few of them I have not managed to listen to yet.) I'd probably say Grumiaux, Szeryng, Fischer, Beyer, Podger. But some I haven't listened to in so long I might not recognize them.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

Mandryka

#312
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 01:02:38 PM
Thanks for your preliminary review. It sounds as if his approach to some extent is HIP influenced in the vein of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt. I shall listen to some clips and then decide whether to get it or not.

I much prefer Terakado! Who is more . . . soulful, natural, and his violin sounds more beautiful to me.

(Damn, I said I wasn't going to compare them . . .)
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

premont

Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 28, 2021, 01:31:51 PM
Curious, which do you consider favorites. (A few of them I have not managed to listen to yet.) I'd probably say Grumiaux, Szeryng, Fischer, Beyer, Podger. But some I haven't listened to in so long I might not recognize them.

From your collection I would say Szeryng(DG), Fischer, Podger, Wallfisch and Mullova.

Other favorites are Christian Tetzlaff (particularly his first recording), Karl Suske (heavily underrated), Christine Busch, Ryo Terakado, Sigiswald Kuijken (both recordings), Ingrid Matthews, Francois Fernandez, Lucy van Dael, John Holloway, Brian Brooks, Susanne Lautenbacher (second recording for Vox), Salvatore Accardo (both recordings),  and probably a few more, which I haven't listened to since long and don't recall without consulting my shelves. I also own a few, which I haven't listened to yet: Gottfried von der Goltz and Stanley Ritchie among them. I have heard most of the period instrument recordings, but probably only about one third of the non-period instrument recordings. Generally I'm a bit exausted as to my S&P listening and prefer to listen to the cello suites instead.
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premont

Quote from: Mandryka on September 28, 2021, 01:49:00 PM
I much prefer Terakado! Who is more . . . soulful, natural, and his violin sounds more beautiful to me.

(Damn, I said I wasn't going to compare them . . .)

Spot on, beautiful and natural. I only rarely gets tears in my eyes when listening to music, but Terakado's b-minor sarabande tends to make me react in this way as does Tetzlaff's courante from the same suite. A propos affects and tonality, in this work I hear no desperation, but rather resignation - an affect which resonates strongly in my mind.
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aukhawk

Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 28, 2021, 07:40:51 AM


That Gidon Kremer must be a 2nd recording - he had an earlier release on Philips:



Of those recently-mentioned, I especially like (in no particular order) Ibragimova, Beyer, van Dael, Brooks.  And would add Carmignola and Kaakinen-Pilch.

I must seek out Terakado.

premont

Quote from: aukhawk on September 29, 2021, 12:18:12 AM
Of those recently-mentioned, I especially like (in no particular order) Ibragimova, Beyer, van Dael, Brooks.  And would add Carmignola and Kaakinen-Pilch.

I must seek out Terakado.

Interesting how tastes differ. I have owned a dozen more recordings, which I have culled: Kaakinen-Pilch, Beyer, Ibragimova, Beznosiuk, Suk, Perlman, Grumiaux, Milstein (both recordings), Ida Haendel, Ricci and Rosand.

But Terakado I have always treasured.
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Spotted Horses

#317
Quote from: (: premont :) on September 29, 2021, 02:37:10 AMBut Terakado I have always treasured.

Terakado is an old Denon recording? (Not easy to find.) The Tetzlaff you like best is the Virgin recording? (There seem to be three, Virgin (now called Erato) Hanssler and Ondine.
There are simply two kinds of music, good music and the other kind. - Duke Ellington

premont

Quote from: Spotted Horses on September 29, 2021, 05:53:22 AM
Terakado is an old Denon recording? (Not easy to find.) The Tetzlaff you like best is the Virgin recording? (There seem to be three, Virgin (now called Erato) Hanssler and Ondine.

Yes to both questions.

I own all three Tetzlaff recordings. Find the Virgin (Erato) to be the most beautiful and moving of these and being in the same league as Terakado's recording.
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aukhawk

I've been enjoying the recordings by Antje Weithaas, which are new to me (issued 2014 to 2017).

She's not extreme in any way, and although I usually don't go much for middle-of-the-road performers, here she really hits a sweet spot.  Avoiding vibrato most of the time, but she's not averse to lapsing into a light, airy vibrato on occasion.  I seem to hear the occasional bowing mini-fluff, but obviously it was not felt necessary to re-take to cover these, and I approve.   She seems particularly at home in the Ciaccona which is not always my favourite piece of music, but here she carries it off with ease and considerable variety of touch.
The instrument (modern build) sounds gorgeous and is immaculately recorded in a generous acoustic.

I doubt if she'll win many friends by spreading the Bach over 3 discs and interleaving some music by Ysaÿe.  The juxtaposition doesn't sound particularly apposite to me.


Bach Sonata 1 & Partita 2, plus two Sonatas by Ysaÿe - Antje Weithaas


Bach Sonata 2 & Partita 3, plus two Sonatas by Ysaÿe - Antje Weithaas


Bach Sonata 3 & Partita 1, plus Sonata 6 in E by Ysaÿe - Antje Weithaas