Debussy's Corner

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Exactly!   And  P&M  overflows with finesse and nuance...

...and intelligence. (Read the whole thing).

The true implications of the ENTIRE quote are that to Debussy finesse and nuance are the perfect tools to counter Wagnerian excess. A way to dissipate gushing sentimentality closing in from all sides.

It's a battle of ideologies - German heaviness vs. French clarity.

So take a deep breath and understand the implications: Debussy is trying to DEFEAT Wagnerian heaviness.

[lukeottevanger]

This is why Debussy wrote of going through the score and finding with horror the 'ghost of old Klingsor' (i.e. Wagner, though I'm quoting from memory) hiding in the odd bar, and of his desire to rid the score of such things. Of course there's a superficial resemblance to Parsifal - as Brahms would say 'any fool can see that' - but at its core the music, which is full of evasions, of hints, of eloquent silences, is really coming from another, new world.

IIRC Dahlhaus has interesting things to say about the opera from this perspective, but I don't have time to dig out the quotation now....

[Dancing Divertimentian]

As do Jeux, the Cello Sonata, the Sonata for Flute, Viola & Harp, &c. &c. &c.

&c. &c. &c. is right.

All the way down the line we see Debussy's sly hand at work.

When you have "intelligence" you don't need heaviness. 

[Homo Aestheticus]

It is bunk, Eric, and your irrational reverence is feeding the bunk.

My reverence is not irrational!  And the pieces on your list do not speak to me. (I will reserve judgment on the cello sonata since I don't know it yet)

I am free to adore and daydream about  P&M  as much as I want.

[karlhenning]

After doing a quick search I found there was no thread () for this great composer . . . .

And by now, you've discovered why 

[karlhenning]

I am free to adore and daydream about  P&M  as much as I want.

Right;  but your gushery is not of general interest;  nor is your daydreaming to be confused with history, or music, or any least thing outside the miasma of your daydreaming.  For the hundredth time, your "adoration of a piece" (in this case, the piece is only the occasion of your fond daydreams) does not map onto its general importance.

[karlhenning]

Karl, this cheap two-fer is an absolute winner for Debussy and Ravel duets - it's got everything on it, including some pretty obscure treasures (and not a harmonic in sight  0:) ). Debussy's four hand output is of major importance in his oeuvre as a whole. En blanc et noir is late, great Debussy at his best - and as we're otherwise left with only the Etudes, the three sonatas and a couple of odd scraps, the importance of this set can't be over-estimated; the Epigraphs Antiques are simply exquisite - evidently the composer of the faun, but older and even more seismically sensitive (I have fond memories of playing these at university with Huw Watkins). Even the early Petite Suite has a lot going for it. And the Ravel - Ma Mere l'Oye in its original pristine form (as played ay our wedding, with aforementioned Huw taking the primo part); rarities like Frontispiece (for 5 hands!) and Entre-cloches; duet versions of La Valse and the Rhapsodie Espagnole.... And I haven't listed everything. The two piano Debussy Nocturnes in Ravel's arrangement is here too, in fact.

Might be tonight's listening, in fact.

Found it!  Right here on Washington Street.

[Kullervo]

Discovering the wonderful sonata for flute, viola and harp — I think this will make the shortlist of my favorite Debussy.

[karlhenning]

Discovering the wonderful sonata for flute, viola and harp — I think this will make the shortlist of my favorite Debussy.

That was a piece I first 'met' when Judith Shatin had me study it in Charlottesville.  Loved it from the first.

Separately:

Madame Hébert's diary shows that Debussy met Franz Liszt three times, and on one occasion heard the aged master play Au Bord d'une source ('Beside a Spring', from Liszt's Années de pèlerinage), an intriguing detail for the future composer of works such as Reflets dans l'eau, L'Isle joyeuse, and Jardins sous la pluie.  Debussy never forgot this episode and how, as he recalled at the end of his life, Liszt 'used the pedal as a kind of breathing'.

[Homo Aestheticus]

Everyone,

I must confess that I have never met anyone either in person or on the internet who loved only the early string quartet, Faun, Pelleas et Melisande and  La Mer.

But one day I discovered that Fredreick Delius too disliked mostly everything Debussy wrote after Pelleas et Melisande.

He once wrote:

"Nowhere is Debussy more completely and fully himself, so happy in his medium than when he composed  P&M..."

Are Delius and I the only 2 "reactionaries" or do you know other people who rank the above works as his finest achievements and reject the later music ?

[Bulldog]

Are Delius and I the only 2 "reactionaries" or do you know other people who rank the above works as his finest achievements and reject the later music ?

I don't understand how you can love his earlier works and just reject the later ones.  It's like saying that once Debussy found his own unique voice, his music suffered to the point of being unworthy.  What's going on?

[Guido]

I don't know the passage that you have excerpted this from, but that really doesn't sound like a rejection of his later music to me. Delius must be one of the most ardent imitators of Debussy's style (well he has his own style, but you know what I mean - he is a Debussy disciple if ever there was one) and that includes young and old. It might be that he rejected the later music, but I some how doubt it.

He actually composed a cello elegy which is based on a small fragment of Faun - something I only discovered when listening to Faun for the first time and finding it very familiar! I think this illustrates my muddled up listening habits and the way round I have learnt musical history!

[Bulldog]

I don't know the passage that you have excerpted this from, but that really doesn't sound like a rejection of his later music to me.

Me neither.  There's nothing in the passage other than praise for the opera.

[Guido]

Eric, is your first language English?

[Homo Aestheticus]

I don't know the passage that you have excerpted this from

Guido,

I have a book of composers' letters which contains one by Delius to Eric Fenby:

He wrote:

You know how much I've always loved L'Apres-midi d' un Faune and Pelleas, although I've remained very unimpressed by the piano music and his later work; the Frenchman has degenerated into a mannerist!   

[Homo Aestheticus]

Eric, is your first language English?

Yes, English is my native language.

Why do you ask ?

[Bulldog]

Guido,

I have a book of composers' letters which contains one by Delius to Eric Fenby:

He wrote:

You know how much I've always loved L'Apres-midi d' un Faune and Pelleas, although I've remained very unimpressed by the piano music and his later work; the Frenchman has degenerated into a mannerist!   

That does it.  No more late Debussy for me - When Delius speaks, the Bulldog listens.

[Guido]

That does it.  No more late Debussy for me - When Delius speaks, the Bulldog listens.

lol!

Interesting Eric - thanks for that quotation.

[karlhenning]

That does it.  No more late Debussy for me - When Delius speaks, the Bulldog listens.

Woof!

[karlhenning]

I don't understand how you can love his earlier works and just reject the later ones.  It's like saying that once Debussy found his own unique voice, his music suffered to the point of being unworthy.  What's going on?

Or like saying that Sibelius made a great success of the Violin Concerto, but couldn't rub two notes together right in any of the seven symphonies.

— Oh, wait; somebody did suggest that, didn't he?  0:)