Debussy's Corner

Started by Kullervo, December 19, 2007, 05:47:00 PM

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ritter

#320
Quote from: Mirror Image on January 03, 2015, 01:02:18 PM
Thanks, I'll check out this performance at some point and if really enjoy it, I may seek out the recording of it. It doesn't really matter to me whether something is groundbreaking or scores lower in rank compared to some of his other works. Debussy is always worth a listen and the same goes for so many of my other favorite composers. Good music is good music...it's that simple.
I hope you enjoy the Sayão ...it's one of my desert island discs, actually (and the Mozart arias--Susanna and Zerlina--that accompany it are also fantastic)...And you being an admirer of Villa-Lobos, you should check out (if you haven't yet) her Bachianas Brasileiras No.5 conducted by the composer...outstanding! (even if it's incomplete: when they recorded the piece, only the first movement, Aria, had been composed).

Agree that Debussy is always worth a listen  :), disagree about it being "that simple"  ;)

Cheers,


Mirror Image

Quote from: ritter on January 03, 2015, 01:21:30 PM
I hope you enjoy the Sayão ...it's one of my desert island discs, actually (and the Mozart arias--Susanna and Zerlina--that accompany it are also fantastic)...And you being an admirer of Villa-Lobos, you should check out (if you haven't yet) her Bachianas Brasileiras No.5 conducted by the composer...outstanding! (even if it's incomplete: when they recorded the piece, only the first movement, Aria, had been composed).

Agree that Debussy is always worth a listen  :), disagree about it being "that simple"  ;)

Cheers,

Thanks, will do, Ritter and, yes, it's not really 'that simple'. ;D

Moonfish

Are there any complete recordings of "Le martyre de saint Sébastien" available?  We seemingly always listen to recordings of the Orchestral Suites or fragments of the work? I understand that the full work actually is very long (five hours according to a Monteux booklet!!). Is that correct or a misprint?  Does anybody know if there is an accessible full recorded version out there?   The booklet I have states that Monteux at one point recorded the full score with the London SO, but does not mention a date? I cannot find such a full version in the Monteux discographies that I have researched so far. Is that recording available anywhere?








"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

San Antone

#323
There are two fairly recent recordings:

Michael Tilson Thomas

[asin]B0000027WZ[/asin]

And this one which has a more French cast

[asin]B006WQAXBW[/asin]


Moonfish

Quote from: sanantonio on May 10, 2015, 04:23:57 PM
There are two fairly recent recordings:

Michael Tilson Thomas

[asin]B0000027WZ[/asin]

And this one which has a more French cast

[asin]B006WQAXBW[/asin]

Thanks!  8)     Yes, I believe both of those are the brief version. I am looking for a full length recording (if such a recording actually exists).
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

San Antone

Both of those versions include the narration and are the standard performing version, IOW not the symphonic fragments which is what I assumed you meant by the "short version". 


Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Moonfish on May 10, 2015, 04:08:36 PM
Are there any complete recordings of "Le martyre de saint Sébastien" available?  We seemingly always listen to recordings of the Orchestral Suites or fragments of the work? I understand that the full work actually is very long (five hours according to a Monteux booklet!!). Is that correct or a misprint?  Does anybody know if there is an accessible full recorded version out there?   The booklet I have states that Monteux at one point recorded the full score with the London SO, but does not mention a date? I cannot find such a full version in the Monteux discographies that I have researched so far. Is that recording available anywhere?

Must be some kind of misprint. I've never heard of the work lasting longer than a Ring opera.

Anserment recorded the full score:


[asin]B002ZIAC6W[/asin]
Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

San Antone

Five hours?  Should be five acts or parts.

Moonfish

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on May 10, 2015, 05:50:58 PM
Must be some kind of misprint. I've never heard of the work lasting longer than a Ring opera.

Anserment recorded the full score:


[asin]B002ZIAC6W[/asin]

Yes, it sounded a bit extreme, but that is what it said..   >:D
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Ken B

Quote from: sanantonio on May 10, 2015, 05:55:33 PM
Five hours?  Should be five acts or parts.

La Mer lasts just over 6 hours.

Moonfish

Quote from: Ken B on May 10, 2015, 06:37:51 PM
La Mer lasts just over 6 hours.

It is because it slows down time....   ;)
"Every time you spend money you are casting a vote for the kind of world you want...."
Anna Lappé

Jo498

Depends on the season. If dawn is at 4:30 La mer lasts almost 8 hours...
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

ritter

#332
Quote from: Moonfish on May 10, 2015, 04:08:36 PM
Are there any complete recordings of "Le martyre de saint Sébastien" available?  We seemingly always listen to recordings of the Orchestral Suites or fragments of the work? I understand that the full work actually is very long (five hours according to a Monteux booklet!!). Is that correct or a misprint?  Does anybody know if there is an accessible full recorded version out there?   The booklet I have states that Monteux at one point recorded the full score with the London SO, but does not mention a date? I cannot find such a full version in the Monteux discographies that I have researched so far. Is that recording available anywhere?
Well, I think the explanation for this is that, performed in it's entirety as a play, Le Martyre should be rather long. AFAIK, there's no modern recording of the whole thing (i.e., all the music and all the spoken text). When we get complete versions of the piece, I think they're complete (or nearly so) as far as the music is concerned, with the text substituted by narration (that's the case for Inghelbrecht live on Montaigne, MTT, Ansermet, Boulez live on Col Legno, Mercier on RCA--of the versions in my collection). There was an old Cluytens recording on French Columbia, never transferred to CD and which I've never heard--but did see in a familiy friend's collection many years ago--, which spanned 3 LPs; I suppose this is a close as a recorded version ever came to what the original concept of Le Martyre was (but even here the text is abriged)...



A French language forum (unkonwn to me until now) discsussed this some time ago. One poster sums the Cluytens up in this classic line: "J'ai aussi la version Cluytens, belle oubliée, mais l'overdose de texte parlé devient vite indigeste". More info here

The cast is the following:

Debussy, Le Martyre de Saint-Sébastien (version abrégée par Véra Korène), Véra Korène (Le Saint), Henriette Barreau (La Mère douloureuse), Jean Marchat (L'Empereur), Rita Gohr [sic], Solange Michel (Les Gémeaux), Jacques Eyser (Le Préfet), Martha Angelici (La voix de la vierge Erigone), Maria Casarès (La fille malade des fièvres), Mattiwilda Dobbs (Vox Coelestis), Jacqueline Brumaire (Vox Sola), Paul Guers (Sanaé), Lucienne Jourfier (Anima Sebastiani), Choeurs Raymond Saint-Paul, Orchestre National de la Radiodiffusion Française, André Cluytens (vers 1952)

Some inetersting and intriguing names here (Maria Casarès among  the actresses, soprano Mattiwilda Dobbs). But one poster in that forum states that there are 15 minutes spans in the recording of all talk and no music.  ::)

San Antone

Thanks ritter for doing the research.  After reading your post I do remember Debussy's music being described as incidental music to a play when I first was interested in the work and read its history.  I think it contains some of his best music, and find the symphonic suite to be a good way to hear the best chunks of this music.  However, the usual version performed as "complete" with the narrations include much more of the music, and the narrations are comparatively short, 3 minutes is about the longest, IIRC, and do add some context that could enhance an appreciation of the music.

I'd stay away from two recordings, though, Bernstein and Cambreling since Bernstein re-wrote the narration in English and Cambreling's is in German.  Unless you happen to want to hear the narration in precisely those languages.

Not too long ago I listened to as many of the available long versions as I could find and chose MTT and Gatti as my favorites.  Ansermet and the other older recordings suffer from old sound IMO and the music is so beautiful I felt it marred the experience.  The Cluytens IMO is out of the question since I am not interested in the dialogue, per se, and is in old sound and merely adds more of the talking which is not the point, IMO.

If I had to choose and recommend just one it would be Gatti, released in 2012, it has modern sound and a mostly French team, but the MTT was released in 1993 and has very good sound and overall a very good recording too.

Which is why in my original post those were the ones I suggested.

;)

San Antone

Quote from: ritter on January 03, 2015, 01:21:30 PM
I hope you enjoy the Sayão ...it's one of my desert island discs, actually (and the Mozart arias--Susanna and Zerlina--that accompany it are also fantastic)...And you being an admirer of Villa-Lobos, you should check out (if you haven't yet) her Bachianas Brasileiras No.5 conducted by the composer...outstanding! (even if it's incomplete: when they recorded the piece, only the first movement, Aria, had been composed).

Agree that Debussy is always worth a listen  :), disagree about it being "that simple"  ;)

Cheers,

Agree about Sayão.

ritter

Thanks for recommending the Gatti, which is (still) absent from my collection, sanantonio. I have a soft spot for the MTT, which I think is the all-around best Martyre I know, and a female diseuse--Leslie Caron here--appears at first sight more coherent with the "original" conception of the work (it was an Ida Rubinstein commission--we owe this lady a hell of a lot of interetsting pieces!) . The Boulez (hard to find, and which IIRC you and I discussed some time ago) is also good (but you know I'm never impartial when good ol' Pierre is concerned)  ;) ).

The French in that froum also mention an Orrmandy /  Vera Zorina recording on Columbia (also not transferred to CD) that looks appealing (I have that tandem's pioneering Jeanne d'Arc au bûcher on Prostine Audio, and it has its charms).

In any case, I agree that Le Martyre has some excellent music (top-drawer Debussy at times)...


San Antone

I am listening to MTT right now and agree that his soloists are excellent, including Ms. Caron who brings a certain cache to the narrration. 

Jaakko Keskinen

It occurred to me, Pelleas is often compared to Parsifal, even though they are very different. But I think it can likewise be compared to Tristan. And the opening measures of the opera actually sound very similar to Tristan's words "So starben wir, um ungetrennt", from act 2. And of course there is the whole love triangle-thing which of course is cliché older than dirt.
"Javert, though frightful, had nothing ignoble about him. Probity, sincerity, candor, conviction, the sense of duty, are things which may become hideous when wrongly directed; but which, even when hideous, remain grand."

- Victor Hugo

Karl Henning

Quote from: Alberich on May 11, 2015, 03:57:14 AM
. . . And of course there is the whole love triangle-thing which of course is cliché older than dirt.

The point is not so much that the general story is nothing new — all storylines boil down to one or more of a small handful of scenari — but the artistry with which it's done, of course.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot