Handel: Messiah Oratorio

[DarkAngel]

Listened to Coop's beloved Hogwood Messiah again today.............a magical performance that can "almost" still lay claim to best performance out there, an essential Messiah for collectors without question. A unique touch is the all boy Oxford choir which works well for Hogwood, the two sopranos are very strong especially Emma Kirkby who absolutely sparkles with her animated delivery style......too bad Judith Nelson sings the majority of soprano parts so we hear less of Kirkby

The Hogwood/AAM string tone is instantly recognizeable and one of the trademarks of this Messiah, what a collection of talent the AAM was at that time! In retrospect I would make some tweak improvements, the contralto
Watkinson I feel is the weakest link and has a somewhat flat average delivery style. If I could substitiute Andreas Scholl from the Christie version paired with the Oxford boys choir and have Kirkby be lead soprano we would have pure magic

[Coopmv]

Listened to Coop's beloved Hogwood Messiah again today.............a magical performance that can "almost" still lay claim to best performance out there, an essential Messiah for collectors without question. A unique touch is the all boy Oxford choir which works well for Hogwood, the two sopranos are very strong especially Emma Kirkby who absolutely sparkles with her animated delivery style......too bad Judith Nelson sings the majority of soprano parts so we hear less of Kirkby

The Hogwood/AAM string tone is instantly recognizeable and one of the trademarks of this Messiah, what a collection of talent the AAM was at that time! In retrospect I would make some tweak improvements, the contralto
Watkinson I feel is the weakest link and has a somewhat flat average delivery style. If I could substitiute Andreas Scholl from the Christie version paired with the Oxford boys choir and have Kirkby be lead soprano we would have pure magic

You may want to consider getting the DVD, which was recorded a few years after the original recordings were made at the same venue (Westminster Abbey).  Seeing is believing and you can actually get a more personal feel for the acoustics of the Westminster Abbey.  The DVD was very well shot IMO and the cast remained the same ... 

[Cristofori]

You may want to consider getting the DVD, which was recorded a few years after the original recordings were made at the same venue (Westminster Abbey).  Seeing is believing and you can actually get a more personal feel for the acoustics of the Westminster Abbey.  The DVD was very well shot IMO and the cast remained the same ...

I have that DVD, on Kultur D2269. I found the performance scarcely different from the audio recording, so much so that I wonder if it wasn't one and the same. It may have only been released two years later on BBC video. I will have to compare the two more extensively.

Nevertheless, I agree with you! Both the audio and video versions  are must haves for Messiah fans!

[Coopmv]

I have that DVD, on Kultur D2269. I found the performance  scarcely different from the audio recording, so much so that I wonder if it wasn't one and the same. It may have only been released two years later on BBC video. I will have to compare the two more extensively.

Nevertheless, I agree with you! Both the audio and video versions  are must haves for Messiah fans!

The DVD was definitely shot at a later date.  BTW, the audio Messiah was an original analog recording that was first released on LP, a 3-LP set which I own as well.  The recording was digitally remastered later.

[Cristofori]

The DVD was definitely shot at a later date.  BTW, the audio Messiah was an original analog recording that was first released on LP, a 3-LP set which I own as well.  The recording was digitally remastered later.

OK, I'm inclined to believe you. The recording dates on my CD and LP copies is 1980. The recording date on the DVD is 1982.

It's just strange that they used exactly the same soloists, the same choir, the same venue, etc., and the performance is remarkably similar.

Regardless, they are both a must have for Handel Messiah fans!

[Coopmv]

OK, I'm inclined to believe you. The recording dates on my CD and LP copies is 1980. The recording date on the DVD is 1982.

It's just strange that they used exactly the same soloists, the same choir, the same venue, etc., and the performance is remarkably similar.

Regardless, they are both a must have for Handel Messiah fans!

I hear you.  As much as I want to keep an open mind about the performance of some timeless masterpieces like Handel Messiah, I rarely listen/collect Handel's Messiah performed by non-English ensembles with Harnoncourt being an exception.  Conversely, I also rarely bother with Bach choral masterpieces such as St Matthew Passion that was performed by English ensemble (the singing part often do not sound quite right).

[DarkAngel]

A couple of the newer Messiahs have come into my posession, listening sessions underway.
-Steve Layton/Hyperion
-John Butt/Linn Records

I think I have now either sold or given away any version before Hogwood AAM, all my favorites succeed it.
The clarified orchestral tones and purity of vocals joined with excellent modern sound is so addictive there is no going back to the old standards......

[KevinP]

John Butt's version was discussed here:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/forum/index.php/topic,9840.msg370471.html#msg370471

and also here, but it's all fluff and no meat:
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,2731.msg70140.html

[DarkAngel]

I added a few Messiahs, all sound very good and will be part of permanent collection, listening sessions underway.
-Steve Layton/Hyperion
-John Butt/Linn Records
-Pearlman/Telarc

I think I have now either sold or given away any version before Hogwood AAM, all my favorites succeed it.
The clarified HIP orchestral tones and purity of vocals joined with excellent modern sound is so addictive there is no going back to the old standards......

Just picked up a real gem, the Pearlman with Boston Baroque is a real positive surprise.......this is a top contender that can stand next to the very best versions, great sound by Telarc adds to the appeal, very cheap new & used at Amazon 

[Coopmv]

Just picked up a real gem, the Pearlman with Boston Baroque is a real positive surprise.......this is a top contender that can stand next to the very best versions, great sound by Telarc adds to the appeal, very cheap new & used at Amazon 

I guess we all have different tastes.  I never have a high opinion of the Boston Baroque/Pearlman.  I was never impressed with what I heard over some of the local classical FM stations over the years.  I much prefer listening to the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra performing baroque works on modern instruments than listening to what I consider a second rate period instrument ensemble.   

[DarkAngel]

I guess we all have different tastes. I never have a high opinion of the Boston Baroque/Pearlman.  I was never impressed with what I heard over some of the local classical FM stations over the years.  I much prefer listening to the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra performing baroque works on modern instruments than listening to what I consider a second rate period instrument ensemble.

Coop I have many Pearlman Baroque staples, and while being very good I have never thought any of them to enter the elite catagory...........till I heard this Messiah. Sumptuos fleet HIP orchestral sound, great soloists with clear vibrato free vocals skillfully ornamented, and the chorals have see through transparancey allowing all the intricate polyphony to emerge, one of the very best Messiahs available for me, a revelation of sorts.

My previous top three may have to be altered in light of these 3 new acquisitions
-Christie/HM
-Pinnock/Archiv
-McCreesh/Archiv

[Bulldog]

Just picked up a real gem, the Pearlman with Boston Baroque is a real positive surprise.......this is a top contender that can stand next to the very best versions, great sound by Telarc adds to the appeal, very cheap new & used at Amazon 

I also consider the Pearlman Messiah one of the best.  Actually, you're the only other person I know who feels the same way.  Excellent!!!  As far as I'm concerned, the Pearlman is more evidence that wonderful baroque recordings can come from any country in the world. 

[DarkAngel]

I also consider the Pearlman Messiah one of the best.  Actually, you're the only other person I know who feels the same way.  Excellent!!!  As far as I'm concerned, the Pearlman is more evidence that wonderful baroque recordings can come from any country in the world.

I think it would appeal to a fairly broad spectrum of listener who give it a real chance, a really beautiful sounding version that is not too lean in texture as some Hip versions may sound to general public 

It had escaped my watchful eye for very long time, glad I gave it a chance

[Coopmv]

DA,    This is a very enjoyable set with very refreshing performance and I was pleasantly surprised.  The soprano singing has a certain purity and naturalness to it compared with other sopranos who have often overdone in the coloratura department. 

[Clever Hans]

DA,    This is a very enjoyable set with very refreshing performance and I was pleasantly surprised.  The soprano singing has a certain purity and naturalness to it compared with other sopranos who have often overdone in the coloratura department. 

That recording is amazing, I really mean it.

[Bunny]

DA,    This is a very enjoyable set with very refreshing performance and I was pleasantly surprised.  The soprano singing has a certain purity and naturalness to it compared with other sopranos who have often overdone in the coloratura department. 

I have that and it is quite fine.  However, it's not the Messiah we are used to hearing but the earlier "Dublin" version which has slightly different music and orchestrations than in the later version as well as calling for smaller forces.  Still, it's very well sung and played and the sound quality is excellent.  Btw, for the echt audiophiles among us, Linn sells "studio master" quality (24bit 44.1kHz 1,775.0MB) downloads in FLAC or WMA formats as well as the SACD/hybrids and other lesser quality download formats. 

[Coopmv]

That recording is amazing, I really mean it.

There is also something quite unusual about this recording.  That it was performed by an up and coming ensemble and what appeared to be a much more low-budget production than the typical Messiah made by the major labels.  In fact, soprano Susan Hamilton happened to be a co-founder of the Dunedin Consort & Players according to the Wiki page I looked up.

[Coopmv]

I have that and it is quite fine.  However, it's not the Messiah we are used to hearing but the earlier "Dublin" version which has slightly different music and orchestrations than in the later version as well as calling for smaller forces.  Still, it's very well sung and played and the sound quality is excellent.  Btw, for the echt audiophiles among us, Linn sells "studio master" quality (24bit 44.1kHz 1,775.0MB) downloads in FLAC or WMA formats as well as the SACD/hybrids and other lesser quality download formats.

What I found unusual about this recording is there are two more tracks after the Amen Chorus.  Of the over 20 versions of Handel Messiah I have, this is the only version with such arrangement.

[Bunny]

There is also something quite unusual about this recording.  That it was performed by an up and coming ensemble and what appeared to be a much more low-budget production than the typical Messiah made by the major labels.  In fact, soprano Susan Hamilton happened to be a co-founder of the Dunedin Consort & Players according to the Wiki page I looked up.

Yes, but I don't think it was "low budget" in terms of performance.  The major difference is that they use the Dublin version (1742) rather than the later version preferred by Händel (1754) which was refined and adapted for greater musical forces.  It is more intimate than the traditional version, but I think that it also lacks some of the grandeur I love about the oratorio.

What I found unusual about this recording is there are two more tracks after the Amen Chorus.  Of the over 20 versions of Handel Messiah I have, this is the only version with such arrangement.

Yes, that's one of the differences between the 1754 and 1742 versions.


Another recording which is one of my favorites is that done in 1983 by Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra and The Sixteen.  I believe that it's been rereleased a number of times, so try and find a less expensive new version as opposed to the used editions usually found at Amazon.  You can find it at Presto Classical for about $12.00 which makes it a real bargain.

  New Cover: 

[Coopmv]

Yes, but I don't think it was "low budget" in terms of performance.  The major difference is that they use the Dublin version (1742) rather than the later version preferred by Händel (1754) which was refined and adapted for greater musical forces.  It is more intimate than the traditional version, but I think that it also lacks some of the grandeur I love about the oratorio.
Yes, that's one of the differences between the 1754 and 1742 versions.


Another recording which is one of my favorites is that done in 1983 by Ton Koopman and the Amsterdam Baroque Orchestra and The Sixteen.  I believe that it's been rereleased a number of times, so try and find a less expensive new version as opposed to the used editions usually found at Amazon.  You can find it at Presto Classical for about $12.00 which makes it a real bargain.

  New Cover: 

I used the term low-budget to describe the production costs and not the performance, as I am convinced this recording cost a bit less to produce than most other versions.  I actually have the version by the Sixteen and Harry Christopher on Hyperion, which I have not listened to in a number of years.  I do not have the version by Koopman, though I have two versions by Nikolaus Harnoncourt, which are the only non-British ensembles performing this work in my collection ...