Joachim Raff

[SonicMan46]

Well, not sure that I'd give Raff's near entire oeuvre 'the shaft' -      Lately I've been concentrating more on his orchestral works and solo piano pieces, so after a year or so put on the chamber works below; enjoyable performances and compositions - as good as other more renowned 19th century 'romantic composers' (thinking Mendelssohn & Schumann mainly), well probably not but maybe a closer race than thought?  At any rate, I have no problem liking these chamber works; plus, nor do a lot of reviewers - see attachment, if interested.  Dave

ADDENDUM: My word, the thread went to the 3rd page! 

 

[vandermolen]

Well, not sure that I'd give Raff's near entire oeuvre 'the shaft' -      Lately I've been concentrating more on his orchestral works and solo piano pieces, so after a year or so put on the chamber works below; enjoyable performances and compositions - as good as other more renowned 19th century 'romantic composers' (thinking Mendelssohn & Schumann mainly), well probably not but maybe a closer race than thought?  At any rate, I have no problem liking these chamber works; plus, nor do a lot of reviewers - see attachment, if interested.  Dave

ADDENDUM: My word, the thread went to the 3rd page! 

 

I've only heard a couple of his other symphonies, which I found pleasant enough but not in the same league as 'Lenore' of which I have multiple recordings.

[Jo498]

Hurwitz recommended the woodwind (2 flutes, oboes, clarinets, bassoons, horns) sinfonietta op.188 in one of his talks about such pieces. There seems to be only one recording?, Basel/Joho as a filler of the older Tudor recording of the Symphony #11 "Winter" (Venzago). It's a very nice piece, if one likes that kind of stuff and there is obviously far less 19th century competition here than for symphonies.
I have not heard all of his symphonies, of the ones I have heard, I probably like 3 "Forest" and 5 "Lenore" the best, but I am overall not too impressed by Raff. The more recent Tudor series conducted by Stadlmair is considerably better in both sound and playing than the older Tudor series, but both include different fillers with the sinfonietta missing in the Stadlmair series.

[amw]

After recently "clicking" with some of the music of Richard Wetz, I'm trying to see if any of the other "unsung" late Romantic German composers are worth exploring. Raff is another obvious example, but I haven't heard a single work of his. Anything worth recommending?

The best/most representative work I've heard by Raff is the 1881 version of the Piano Sonata Op. 14. Usual caveat that you have to like this sort of thing.
https://www.youtube.com/v/IIB74BL2Wg4

[foxandpeng]

I haven't listened to anything by Raff for a while - not because of a lack of appreciation, but because exploring other, more recent works have been my focus. I very much enjoy the easy lyricism that he brings to the table, and spent ages in the early days of CD-Rs transferring symphonies by himself and Anton Rubinstein, track by track from their Marco Polo originals into versions I could listen to myself. Neither Raff nor Rubinstein will ever top a GMG Favourites poll, but both have attractive music that can be played both as background music and as focused listening, when desired. For me, as long as you set your expectations in the right place, you won't complain about their quality as a single malt when what you have poured is a decent blended whisky.

I really quite like symphonies 5, 4, 3 and most of all, 6.

[joachim]

I really like Joachim Raff (it's in his honor that I took the nickname Joachim) 

I particularly like his Lenore symphony (No. 5), but I also like the others (especially Nos. 1, 3, 7 and the Seasons cycle). His piano concerto op. 186 and that for violin n° 2 op. 206 are gorgeous. You should also know his chamber music (string octet op. 176, sextet op. 178, string quartets), etc.

[Symphonic Addict]

Another fan here. There is so much to enjoy from his pen. Even though I've been more critical with the Symphonies more more, no doubt exists about his craftsmanship and sense of melody and drama.

[vandermolen]

Symphony No.5 'Lenore' is great and I have multiple recordings of it. The old Bernard Herrmann recording and Yondani Butt's are my favourites. Raff's other symphonies have not made such an impression on me.

[Jo498]

I recently got symphonies 9+11 in the Stadlmair series and I think this will be my last Raff. I had had 11 in the earlier Tudor recording that I got also because of the woodwind sinfonietta (this is a more interesting and original piece to me than most of his symphonies and it seems the only available recording). But I didn't have #9 ("Summer") and some people claimed that this was (one of) the best Raff symphonies.
Unfortunately, I am again rather disappointed. My general impression of Raff (and I listened to the "Spring" and the piano concerto piece that was a filler as well recently) is of a "nice but lame" composer. He is best with somewhat atmospheric scherzo or idyllic pieces but these cannot carry a 35-40 min symphony. The programmatic titles often seem barely connected with the music but neither is the music strong enough to provide lasting interest.
I have symphonies 3, 5, 9, 11 with Stadlmair and 8,10,11 in the older Tudor recordings, all with their fillers as well as two discs with trios and one with quartets from cpo and this seems more Raff than I will ever need...

[kyjo]

While I can understand criticisms of Raff being a "nice but tame" composer, his consummate craftsmanship and melodic inspiration make him an endearing composer in the same way that Mendelssohn, Saint-Saëns, and Dvorak are to me (not suggesting that Raff was quite on the level of these three, though). His chamber output is more consistently inspired than his orchestral one I'd say, though his undoubted masterpiece is the 5th Symphony. My favorite works of his include:

Symphonies nos. 2-5 and 9
Piano Concerto
Suite for Piano and Orchestra
Cello Concerto no. 2
Tempest and Macbeth Overtures
All 4 piano trios
Both piano quartets
Piano Quintet
String Quartet no. 7 Die schöne Mullerin
String Sextet

[Figaro]

How would you compare Joachim Raff with Carl Reinecke?

I'm not super familiar with either, I've heard the symphonies of both a few times and remember liking but not loving Reinecke 2 and Raff 3, but not enough to keep them in the playlist. But after giving Bruch a real deep dive and deciding that I really rate him, I wonder if I should give Reinecke and Raff another chance?

They have a lot of similarities - alive at the same time (though Reinecke lived quite a bit longer), definitely on the conservative side, both drawing stylistically on Mendelssohn, both basically absent from the concert hall today.

Who would you say is better out of Raff and Reinecke and why, or are they really not that similar in your view? If you only had room for one in your collection who would you keep?

[Symphonic Addict]

Both composers were accomplished craftsmen. Raff strikes me like more tuneful than Reinecke overall, also I think he was a better orchestrator. Reinecke, whilst very worthwhile too, seems more conservative and academic. Reinecke's 2nd Symphony is very nice, the very beginning is already striking; his other two symphonies don't impact me as much as most of Raff's. The best symphonies of latter are, IMO, Nos. 5, 8, 9 and possibly the No. 3.

If I had to choose only one of them, I would definitely pick Raff. I really like his string quartets, Piano Quintet, String Sextet, String Octet, both Piano Quartets, Piano Concerto, Suite for Piano and Orchestra, both Cello Concertos and some other pieces. By Reinecke the pieces that stand out are the Piano Concertos 3 and 4, Violin Concerto, Cello Concerto, Flute Concerto and Harp Concerto. I need to get acquainted with most of his chamber music (the string quartets are nice but not terribly great).

[Figaro]

Thanks. I suppose if I'd asked the same question on the Reinecke thread, I'd have got the opposite answer!

[Jo498]

I don't know enough music by Reinecke to really compare them. The one work by Reinecke I like most (and probably more than any Raff I have heard) is the trio for oboe, horn, piano op.188 that is haunting in its combination of timbres and atmosphere. But I found the other mixed trios (with clarinet etc.) already a bit disappointing compared to op.188.

[Figaro]

Dug out the Raff (the Tudor set with the complete symphonies and suites) and began at the beginning.

Found little to like in the first symphony. It's very long and just not memorable enough for that kind of size.

The second was quite a bit better I thought, and better than I remembered it being; though my favourite of these first works was the Overture in A minor.

I found very little of interest in the first Orchestral suite; pleasant background music but little depth (which, to be fair, is probably exactly what was intended).

Symphony #3 is a big step forward though, as I remembered it being. The theme in the opening movement, with it's noble horns, is up there with any romantic symphony.

Overall there's a lot to like and a lot to dismiss - but enough of the former to make me persevere with Raff, although perhaps a break first. There is a lot of "triumph", bombast and martial stuff in this music: it's very cheerful and "bright" sounding. This was no doubt fashionable at the time, but I wonder whether today we prefer the stereotype of the angsty romantic. Raff, whilst definitely romantic, is about as far away from Angst as it's possible to get - at least on the basis of these first few works.