Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)

aukhawk · July 16, 2024, 02:34:21 AM

Quote from: Mandryka on July 14, 2024, 12:55:58 AM

Rattle's Eclairs sur l'au-delà. Released Feb this year. But what to make of the music? Sunlight through shards of stained glass - if you touch you'll cut yourself, cool to watch from a distance.

I'm not really a fan of Messiaen's orchestral music - but this is the exception, this I can listen to. I prefer the recording by Myung-Whun Chung, which benefits from DG's hard-lit '4D' engineering, suiting this piece very well. I also like Cambreling, who adopts broader tempi than Rattle or Chung.

Mandryka · July 19, 2024, 01:03:11 AM

Quote from: Atriod on July 09, 2024, 04:52:26 AMI hear Kodama as quite transparent, clear. I have not heard either of Loriod's recordings, to be honest her Erato recording of Vingt regards didn't do that well in a blind test I did so I have not felt an urge to get to it. I do want to listen to Ugorski more, I have only heard the first two pieces then went on a detour; Jean-Rodolphe Kars showed an expansive, rounded Vingts Regards can work quite well and Ugorski might just be the same in d'oiseaux.

Peter Hill and Nigel Simeone's book on Messiaen also excellent - you can read it on Internet Archive.

Mandryka · July 19, 2024, 01:21:52 AM

Quote from: aukhawk on July 08, 2024, 01:06:22 AMYes it's a super book to have, I like to dip into it every now and then.

Yes I don't enjoy Aimard's recording of the Oiseaux - of course his Messiaen credentials are impeccable, but still, he sounds a bit heavy-handed to me.
Interestingly though, the general critical view of Yvonne Loriod's style in the '50s seems to have been that she had this characteristic too - robust, emphatic are the sort of words that get used to describe her playing. There are a few hints to this scattered through the book. Given that her playing influenced Messiaen's writing, perhaps Aimard (who studied with Loriod of course) offers a more authentic experience than I give him credit for.

Fortunately Loriod is well-represented on record so every listener can make up their own mind - she sounds just fine to me, I would even say, towards the lyrical end of the spectrum, and that is her earlier quicker recording I'm thinking of (on Vega). My own favourite recording of the Oiseaux - of those I've heard - is probably Ugorski. Although I like Kodama too - these two offer very contrasting approaches, Ugorski soft-edged, Kodama crystalline.

I think Ugorski is one the very few I've heard who can make sense of Le Merle de Roche.

Mandryka · July 19, 2024, 01:37:00 AM

Quote from: aukhawk on July 16, 2024, 02:34:21 AMI'm not really a fan of Messiaen's orchestral music - but this is the exception, this I can listen to. I prefer the recording by Myung-Whun Chung, which benefits from DG's hard-lit '4D' engineering, suiting this piece very well. I also like Cambreling, who adopts broader tempi than Rattle or Chung.

Cambreling seems heavy, not that that's a bad thing necessarily.

Amusing comments on Eclairs sur l'au-delà from

https://5against4.com/2023/07/26/salzburg-festival-2023-swr-symphony-orchestra-ingo-metzmacher-messiaen-eclairs-sur-lau-dela/

It's easy to imagine Messiaen as a kind of crazed zealot running around madly shouting, "birds! trumpets! angels! bliss! stars! ecstasy! love! death! joy!"

ritter · July 19, 2024, 05:20:05 AM

Quote from: Mandryka on July 19, 2024, 01:37:00 AMAmusing comments on Eclairs sur l'au-delà from

...

It's easy to imagine Messiaen as a kind of crazed zealot running around madly shouting, "birds! trumpets! angels! bliss! stars! ecstasy! love! death! joy!"

"Ah, Messiaen, he is for me a big problem ... [dramatic pause] The religion ... [another pause, shrugged shoulders, and louder] The birds ... [louder still, hands raised and in tones of pantomimic horror] Aand ... my God ... the ORGAN!" There was no doubt which of these three shockers was the worst.

Pierre Boulez on Messiaen, as recounted by Gerard McBurney in The Guardian.

Mandryka · February 08, 2025, 01:30:37 PM

Excellent video on Le Merl Bleu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eve-P883WUA

Mandryka · February 16, 2025, 01:37:11 PM

Just discovered this on Spotify - Messiaen playing the piano in Harawi, Marcelle Bunlet is a new name for me. I don't say it's the most satisfying Harawi, it is very different from Yakar/Loriod!

Mandryka · February 19, 2025, 07:18:32 AM

Gillock, Livre du saint sacrement. It's very polished, very lyrical, very beautiful - the music glows and hovers and sings like sirens and angels. It is not rich in asperities, it's not shockingly dramatic. I very much like it, it's become a favourite.

Does anyone know if Raven is still operating? I want to order a CD but the system doesn't retrieve my password and doesn't manage to send messages.

Mandryka · February 23, 2025, 05:08:42 AM

Fabulous singing, but such unusual sound engineering. Has anyone else heard Sun/Perifanova Harawi?

San Antone · February 23, 2025, 05:44:26 AM

Quote from: Mandryka on February 23, 2025, 05:08:42 AMFabulous singing, but such unusual sound engineering. Has anyone else heard Sun/Perifanova Harawi?

I don't hear anything "unusual" about the engineering. It is a natural sounding ambience.

I agree the singing is very nice, as is the piano playing. This recording will move to the top of my list of those of Harawi. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Mandryka · February 23, 2025, 06:21:09 AM

Quote from: San Antone on February 23, 2025, 05:44:26 AMI don't hear anything "unusual" about the engineering. It is a natural sounding ambience.

I agree the singing is very nice, as is the piano playing. This recording will move to the top of my list of those of Harawi. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Don't you hear reverb? It may be my speakers! Fuck!

ritter · February 23, 2025, 06:30:05 AM

I've seen Harawi live (Sigune von Osten and Yvonne Loriod, in the presence of the composer), and have several recordings of it (including the historic Marcelle Brunet with the composer at the piano). Every time I try to give this piece a new chance, I fail miserably. I find it embarrassingly bad. Certainly at the very bottom of my personal list of Messiaen works.

Mandryka · February 23, 2025, 06:41:41 AM

Quote from: ritter on February 23, 2025, 06:30:05 AMI've seen Harawi live (Sigune von Osten and Yvonne Loriod, in the presence of the composer), and have several recordings of it (including the historic Marcelle Brunet with the composer at the piano). Every time I try to give this piece a new chance, I fail miserably. I find it embarrassingly bad. Certainly at the very bottom of my personal list of Messiaen works.

I have only one thing to say to you. DONDOU TCHIL!

ritter · February 23, 2025, 06:43:13 AM

Quote from: Mandryka on February 23, 2025, 06:41:41 AMI have only one thing to say to you. DONDOU TCHIL!

DavidW · February 23, 2025, 06:52:19 AM

Quote from: Mandryka on February 23, 2025, 06:21:09 AMDon't you hear reverb? It may be my speakers! Fuck!

Only one poster here can settle this! @Spotted Horses is extremely sensitive to reverb. If he can't hear it, it doesn't exist!

San Antone · February 23, 2025, 10:51:30 AM

Quote from: Mandryka on February 23, 2025, 06:21:09 AMDon't you hear reverb? It may be my speakers! Fuck!

Yes, and I remarked on the room ambience, which is how I heard it, not something added in the studio through signal processing. It wasn't excessive, IMO, and I thought the sound was warm and natural.

I disagree that the work is among the worst of Messiaen's oeuvre. But that is just my personal opinion.

Mandryka · February 24, 2025, 02:36:52 AM

Maybe this is the worst thing Messiaen wrote. Very nice though, for all that. (Have I just contradicted myself?)

Mandryka · March 08, 2025, 12:25:29 PM

Interview with Loriod -- She's such a sweetie.

https://entretiens.ina.fr/entretien/21/yvonne-loriod-messiaen/sommaire/2