Olivier Messiaen (1908-1992)

Started by bhodges, January 03, 2008, 09:35:19 AM

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Philoctetes

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on May 03, 2011, 09:03:42 AM
Good for you, Kevin. That's what I am willing to hear what you have to say about Messiaen. And I promise you that what you are not hearing in Mozart now is truly there, because too many listeners who care deeply about this music have found it.

I have no doubt. I'm sure it will come in time, and finding the right work/works.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Coco on May 03, 2011, 08:56:33 AM
MI you are rather dogged in your need to confrontationally posit your reactionary responses to music that other people enjoy. What's up?

I just find it funny that when somebody comes along with a negative opinion about a composer that somebody else enjoys that it's like some kind of forbidden taboo to say anything about them. This kind of attitude is exactly what is wrong with classical music listeners in general. I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of it as well, but this is something I'm working on. Everybody has a right to their opinion whether you understand that opinion or not. Yes, I haven't heard enough of Messiaen's music, but of what I did hear, I'm not interested in pursuing anything else. He's turned me off. It's not about effort as Philo asserts, it's about a connection with the music. I do not feel anything other than repulsed when I hear Messiaen. If my opinion bothers you, then perhaps you should work on becoming more accepting of other's opinions? I mean this goes for everybody, including myself. Like haydnguy said in one of his posts, nobody needs the "Classical Police" patrolling the board where you'll get a "ticket" for not liking somebody everybody else likes.

Scarpia

Quote from: Philoctetes on May 03, 2011, 08:56:03 AM
And I don't find it absurd at all.

Really.  My lack of enthusiasm with Messiaen's organ music mainly comes from Livre Du Saint-Sacrement.  Is there something you would suggest from Messiaen's organ works for someone who doesn't like Livre Du Saint-Sacrement?

Philoctetes

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 09:05:42 AM
I just find it funny that when somebody comes along with a negative opinion about a composer that somebody else enjoys that it's like some kind of forbidden taboo to say anything about them. This kind of attitude is exactly what is wrong with classical music listeners in general. I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of it as well, but this is something I'm working on. Everybody has a right to their opinion whether you understand that opinion or not. Yes, I haven't heard enough of Messiaen's music, but of what I did hear, I'm not interested in pursuing anything else. He's turned me off. It's not about effort as Philo asserts, it's about a connection with the music. I do not feel anything other than repulsed when I hear Messiaen. If my opinion bothers you, then perhaps you should work on becoming more accepting of other's opinions? I mean this goes for everybody, including myself. Like haydnguy said in one of his posts, nobody needs the "Classical Police" patrolling the board where you'll get a "ticket" for not liking somebody everybody else likes.

Again, you're clearly not that blind. You even mentioned that main problem with your posts.

You've barely heard anything, and what you did hear was from a very narrow field. If you desire, I can send you some of his organ works, as I feel that is where he shines the most.

Scarpia

Quote from: Philoctetes on May 03, 2011, 09:05:10 AM
I have no doubt. I'm sure it will come in time, and finding the right work/works.

Have you listened to the Mozart String Quintets?

Mirror Image

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on May 03, 2011, 09:01:58 AM
Look, I don't really care what the hell you do. But it's a helluva lot of fun at times pushing your buttons, and your intransigence and close-mindedness impress only yourself. Speaking as someone who dislikes a big technicolor production like Turangalila, but who does find the Quartet for the End of Time very beautiful and moving, I think your "opinion" of work you haven't heard and refuse to hear has no merit whatever. But do what you like; as a student I flunked in a freshman English course once said to me, "it don't bother me none."

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." - Gone with the Wind.

Philoctetes

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 03, 2011, 09:08:12 AM
Have you listened to the Mozart String Quintets?

Not yet, I'm making my way through things. Currently, I'm on his symphonies and string quartets. (I'll admit that I do like his operas and his choral works)

Mirror Image

Quote from: Philoctetes on May 03, 2011, 09:07:36 AM
Again, you're clearly not that blind. You even mentioned that main problem with your posts.

You've barely heard anything, and what you did hear was from a very narrow field. If you desire, I can send you some of his organ works, as I feel that is where he shines the most.

Thanks Philo, but I don't want to hear any solo organ. I don't even like the organ.

Philoctetes

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 09:10:40 AM
Thanks Philo, but I don't want to hear any solo organ. I don't even like the organ.

That statement doesn't even make sense.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Philoctetes on May 03, 2011, 09:11:28 AM
That statement doesn't even make sense.

What that I don't like the organ? I thought I made that pretty clear.

Coco

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 09:05:42 AM
I just find it funny that when somebody comes along with a negative opinion about a composer that somebody else enjoys that it's like some kind of forbidden taboo to say anything about them. This kind of attitude is exactly what is wrong with classical music listeners in general. I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of it as well, but this is something I'm working on. Everybody has a right to their opinion whether you understand that opinion or not. Yes, I haven't heard enough of Messiaen's music, but of what I did hear, I'm not interested in pursuing anything else. He's turned me off. It's not about effort as Philo asserts, it's about a connection with the music. I do not feel anything other than repulsed when I hear Messiaen. If my opinion bothers you, then perhaps you should work on becoming more accepting of other's opinions? I mean this goes for everybody, including myself. Like haydnguy said in one of his posts, nobody needs the "Classical Police" patrolling the board where you'll get a "ticket" for not liking somebody everybody else likes.

I have my problems with Messiaen's music as I posted earlier. That said, I don't feel that any disagreement with my assessment is a personal slight against me. I also fully admit that my opinion could change. It's already changed on Messiaen — going from not liking it at all to liking quite a few of his works.

You seem to be offended by the mere suggestion that you have room to grow as a listener.

Mirror Image

Quote from: Coco on May 03, 2011, 09:13:26 AMYou seem to be offended by the mere suggestion that you have room to grow as a listener.

No, I'm not offended, just surprised that people can't accept other people's opinions.

Scarpia

Quote from: Philoctetes on May 03, 2011, 09:09:44 AM
Not yet, I'm making my way through things. Currently, I'm on his symphonies and string quartets. (I'll admit that I do like his operas and his choral works)

Don't get bogged down in the symphonies.  I'd suggest the two wind serenades, KV375 and KV388.  He never wrote anything to top those, in my view.  And the Quintet in D, KV593

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 09:05:42 AM
I'm not saying that I'm not guilty of it as well, but this is something I'm working on.

When you show some sign of progress, would you let us know?
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Mirror Image

Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on May 03, 2011, 09:16:13 AM
When you show some sign of progress, would you let us know?

Would you let me know your progress as well?

Philoctetes

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 03, 2011, 09:15:29 AM
Don't get bogged down in the symphonies.  I'd suggest the two wind serenades, KV375 and KV388.  He never wrote anything to top those, in my view.  And the Quintet in D, KV593
T
I won't get bogged down. I only have two more on my list. I'll get to those next. Thanks.

(poco) Sforzando

Quote from: Mirror Image on May 03, 2011, 09:16:57 AM
Would you let me know your progress as well?

In what respect? I'll bet you anything I've heard and studied a great deal more music than you have, and that includes most of the composers on your fan list. I don't regard you as an equal.
"I don't know what sforzando means, though it clearly means something."

Coco

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 03, 2011, 09:15:29 AM
Don't get bogged down in the symphonies.  I'd suggest the two wind serenades, KV375 and KV388.  He never wrote anything to top those, in my view.  And the Quintet in D, KV593


I should do the same with Mozart — all I really know are the last five symphonies, the clarinet quintet and the Requiem.

Mirror Image

#138
Quote from: (poco) Sforzando on May 03, 2011, 09:19:03 AM
In what respect? I'll bet you anything I've heard and studied a great deal more music than you have, and that includes most of the composers on your fan list. I don't regard you as an equal.

Ah, we're onto personal insults now huh? A nice, mature thing to do.

You don't regard me as an equal? Ah that's so terrible, I'm just going to go cry myself to sleep. ::)

All of this mayhem because I actually said I don't like Messiaen's music.

DavidW

Quote from: Il Barone Scarpia on May 03, 2011, 09:08:12 AM
Have you listened to the Mozart String Quintets?

That is a good suggestion, those are easily my favorite chamber works of Mozart.